# Courts that order kids from the only parents they've ever known **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460 "2004-12-31T18:52:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/21 "2005-01-01T02:44:02Z")
Why shouldn’t he? Hes the father. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/22 "2005-01-01T02:51:36Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Why shouldn’t he? Hes the father. The mother got lawyered up, IMO, \*specifically \* to keep the daddy out of it. Why? There’s a lot more there that hasn’t been reported. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/23 "2005-01-01T02:57:04Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Why shouldn’t he? Hes the father. Because he isn’t the mother. Because he didn’t give a fuck enough about the mother to even know that he had knocked her up and because he doesn’t give a shit about traumatizing the child, so fuck him. He’s an unfit piece of shit. The judge ordered that he can have “liberal visitation,” so he’s got nothing to whine about. Plus, you don’t know everything that was presented to the judge so how do you know he isn’t a crackhead or a dog fucker? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/24 "2005-01-01T03:17:21Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Because he isn’t the mother. So what? Why should mothers get custody over fathers? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Because he didn’t give a fuck enough about the mother to even know that he had knocked her up and because he doesn’t give a shit about traumatizing the child, so fuck him. He’s an unfit piece of shit. Wow. A guy goes to court to get custody of his kid as soon as he finds out about the kid and he doesn’t give a shit? Just wow. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The judge ordered that he can have “liberal visitation,” so he’s got nothing to whine about. Are you kidding? Seriously. He loses his kid but its a-ok becuase he gets to visit often? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Plus, you don’t know everything that was presented to the judge so how do you know he isn’t a crackhead or a dog fucker? Neither do you but that certainly hasn’t stopped you from passing judgement has it? It seems odd to me that the mother gives up a kid for adoption and yet gets custody over the father that went to court to get custody. If the father is a danger why is he getting ‘liberal visitation rights’. It just seems very odd to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/25 "2005-01-01T03:26:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > So what? Why should mothers get custody over fathers? Because they’re the mothers, moron. They’re the ones who give birth. That’s just the way it goes. > [@](#): > > Wow. A guy goes to court to get custody of his kid as soon as he finds out about the kid and he doesn’t give a shit? Just wow. Why didn’t he know she was pregnant if he gave a fuck? [quote] Are you kidding? Seriously. He loses his kid but its a-ok becuase he gets to visit often? [/quote He didn’t “lose his kid,” dipshit, he just didn’t get custody. Liberal visitation is more than generous considering the trauma he’s already responsible for. > [@](#): > > Neither do you but that certainly hasn’t stopped you from passing judgement has it? I have been given no reason to question the judge’s decision and neither have you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/26 "2005-01-01T03:33:58Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Why shouldn’t he? Hes the father. If I read the article right, the father had previously assaulted the mother. Why should he get custody after something like that? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/27 "2005-01-01T03:46:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Because they’re the mothers, moron. They’re the ones who give birth. That’s just the way it goes. Uhm no thats not the way it goes. I can see for small children that need to be breastfed. This is not the case as the kid is 3 1/2 there is no biologic reason why the father can’t raise the kid just as good as the mother nor is there a reason why the mother should get custody by default. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Why didn’t he know she was pregnant if he gave a fuck? Gee I dunno maybe he went away to college, maybe hes in the military, maybe she stopped seeing him, maybe he was in jail for dealing drugs, maybe he was busy fucking her sister. You don’t know why. You have no evidence that he doesn’t give a shit. In fact you have evidence to the opposite, he went to court to get custody. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > He didn’t “lose his kid,” dipshit, he just didn’t get custody. Liberal visitation is more than generous considering the trauma he’s already responsible for. However you want to put it he is being denied custody of his child. Just becuase he is allowed to visit said child does not make it O.K. Why is he responsible for the trauma? He went to court to get custody as soon as he found out. Its the mother and the Scotts that dragged out the court battle to deny him custody. Maybe they had a good reason to do it. I don’t know. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I have been given no reason to question the judge’s decision and neither have you. I see some reasons. The court case went on for 3 years and he awarded custody to the person that gave up the child for adoption. Seems odd enough to me to start asking questions. On preview: The article is poorly written and its confusing to me at least whether or not the Father assaulted the Mother. If thats the case then thats fine that he wasn’t given custody but then I wonder why he was giving ‘liberal visitation’. Its just odd to me. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/28 "2005-01-01T03:51:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > If I read the article right, the father had previously assaulted the mother. Why should he get custody after something like that? The article doesn’t say that. Goes out of it’s way to hint at it, but not say it. I think that’s what is going on and the reporter _should_ have made that clear but wussed out. I see\*\* treis\*\*'s point. The father can sometimes be the best option for the welfare of the child, and the mother can sometimes be a detriment. And both parents should have similar rights, all things being equal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/29 "2005-01-01T03:56:07Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > The article doesn’t say that. Goes out of it’s way to hint at it, but not say it. I think that’s what is going on and the reporter _should_ have made that clear but wussed out. > > I see\*\* treis\*\*'s point. The father can sometimes be the best option for the welfare of the child, and the mother can sometimes be a detriment. And both parents should have similar rights, all things being equal. And sometimes one parent is clearly better. That’s why we have judges. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/30 "2005-01-01T04:09:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And sometimes one parent is clearly better. That’s why we have judges. But it’s not always the mother. I think that was\*\* treis\*\*'s point. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/31 "2005-01-01T04:12:16Z")
My main point is that we have a mother didn’t want the child (she gave it up for adoption) and a father that did (he went to court to challenge the adoption) why did the mother get custody? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/32 "2005-01-01T04:22:56Z")
> [@treis](#): > > My main point is that we have a mother didn’t want the child (she gave it up for adoption) and a father that did (he went to court to challenge the adoption) why did the mother get custody? Because he’s probably a fucking asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/33 "2005-01-01T04:23:30Z")
> [@treis](#): > > My main point is that we have a mother didn’t want the child (she gave it up for adoption) and a father that did (he went to court to challenge the adoption) why did the mother get custody? Has to be some domestic violence issue going on… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/34 "2005-01-01T04:23:58Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > But it’s not always the mother. I think that was\*\* treis\*\*'s point. So what? He doesn’t know the facts in this case, so what’s he bitching about. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/35 "2005-01-01T04:28:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So what? He doesn’t know the facts in this case, so what’s he bitching about. None of us know the facts in the case. That’s why it’s a poor article. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/36 "2005-01-01T04:28:40Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So what? He doesn’t know the facts in this case, so what’s he bitching about. What are you bitching about? You don’t know shit about the case either yet you have somehow deduced that he ‘doesn’t give a shit about traumatizing the child’, is a ‘fucking asshole’ and is an ‘unfit piece of shit’. Not to mention I am not bitching about anything. I just found many odd things about this case and I wanted some questions answered. You come flying in here throwing insults around and spewing bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/37 "2005-01-01T04:30:16Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > None of us know the facts in the case. That’s why it’s a poor article. That’s why we’re in no position to question the judge’s decision. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/38 "2005-01-01T04:32:55Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Has to be some domestic violence issue going on… I agree there has to be something major going on here that the article completely missed. What possible reason could there be for dragging on a custody suit for 3 years? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/39 "2005-01-01T04:33:06Z")
Let me see if I can summarize what **treis** has argued. 1. The mother did not want the child and put child up for adoption 2. Convention wisdom is that, absent abuse, a child is better off with a biological parent 3. The biological father has petitioned for custody, and did so as soon as he learned of the child’s existence 4. The article doesn’t say there was any instance of abuse (although it beats around that bush) 5. Therefore, the only biological parent that actually \*wanted \* the child seems the obvious choice for custody Is that about it? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460/40 "2005-01-01T04:36:12Z")
Yeah thats pretty much it with the addition of ‘What the fuck took so long’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courts-that-order-kids-from-the-only-parents-theyve-ever-known/282460.md?page=3)