# Covid deaths- confirmed vs conspiracy **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Created:** [May 3, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115 "2024-05-03T19:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/1 "2024-05-03T19:48:53Z")
Okay, some morons are claiming the number of covid deaths were bogus- that any death were covid was present - even say an automobile accident- was counted as a covid death. I say- mostly bullshit. So, during the covid “dying time” was the overall death rate higher? In other words- over 1 million Americans died due to covid, per stats. Was the number way way over the expected death rates from all other causes? And of course, we did see a decline in auto accident deaths during the shut-down. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/2 "2024-05-03T20:01:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, during the covid “dying time” was the overall death rate higher? Yes, the overall death rate was higher. This CDC page is a one-stop shop for questions like this. Scroll down to the graphic titled “Weekly number of deaths (from all causes)”. There are also a lot of downloadable spreadsheets and such hosted on the page. > **[Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm)** > > Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/3 "2024-05-03T20:05:06Z")
This is worth a read as well – from February of this year. > **[New Analysis Reveals Many Excess Deaths Attributed to Natural Causes Are...](https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2024/new-analysis-reveals-many-excess-deaths-attributed-to-natural-causes-are-actually-uncounted-covid-19-deaths/)** > > The new study provides the most compelling data yet to suggest that excess mortality rates from chronic illnesses and other natural causes were actually driven by COVID-19 infections. > Nearly 1,170,000 people have died from COVID-19 in the United States according to official [federal counts](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home), but multiple excess mortality studies suggest that these totals are vastly undercounted. While excess mortality provides an estimation of deaths that likely would not have occurred under normal, non-pandemic conditions, there is still little evidence into whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus contributed to these additional deaths, or whether these deaths were caused by other factors such as healthcare disruptions or socioeconomic challenges. > > Now, a new study led by the School of Public Health and the University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) provides the first concrete data showing that many of these excess deaths were indeed uncounted COVID-19 deaths. > > [Published in the journal _PNAS_](https://www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.2313661121), the study compared reported COVID-19 deaths to excess deaths due to non-COVID, natural causes, such as diseases and chronic illnesses, and found that increases in non-COVID excess deaths occurred at the same time or in the month prior to increases in reported COVID-19 deaths in most US counties. > > Focusing on excess deaths by natural causes rather than all-cause excess death estimates provides a more accurate understanding of the true number of deaths attributable to COVID-19, as it eliminates external causes for mortality, such as intentional or unintentional injuries, for which COVID-19 would not be a contributing factor. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/4 "2024-05-03T21:26:03Z")
Right. My dad died from pneumonia a few months after he had contracted and recovered from COVID (April 2020)- basically it did enough lung damage and whatever else that he was more susceptible to pneumonia. I’m not sure if he’s counted as a COVID death or not, but he sure should be. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/5 "2024-05-03T22:28:04Z")
Initially, in my state, deaths where covid was even suspected were labeled as covid, until the health department could comb through each and every record to determine the exact cause. See: > [@Whence the story about MDs inflating Covid death stats?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-story-about-mds-inflating-covid-death-stats/949017/23): > > To elaborate on my previous post, Washington State at first reported all deaths where Covid was present as Covid-caused deaths, because there were so many deaths so fast that there wasn’t time to investigate. Remember that every place was understaffed and people were dying every day. And many of the deceased had incomplete death certificates. Then, when the state had the manpower (with the help of the WA National Guard), they went through and made corrections. I would guess that the same thing … > **[Washington state is adjusting how it counts COVID-19 deaths](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/washington-state-is-adjusting-how-it-counts-covid-19-deaths/)** > > The Washington state Department of Health is refining how it records deaths as it works to better track the coronavirus pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/6 "2024-05-03T22:37:03Z")
Somebody from my high school was frothing at the mouth on Facebook, early on; her mother had passed away in a hospital. IIRC, proximal cause of death was heart failure or something, and she was ranting about SUING THEM if Covid was listed on the death certificate. I don’t recall whether her mother had even been diagnosed with Covid. I’m honestly not sure what her heartburn was. May have been related to the rumors that doctors were intentionally mislabelling non-COVID patients as having COVID due to it leading to higher reimbursements, or something. But clearlly she thought that there were a lot of invalid claims of death by COVID. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/7 "2024-05-04T04:19:12Z")
I mean, just look at the fatality graph from 1990-2022 > **[Total number of fatalities U.S. 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/195920/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-states-since-1990/)** > > In 2022, about 3.27 million deaths were reported in the United States. (It doesn’t seem to load up the second time for me, so here are the numbers from 2010): Fatalities in millions: 2009 - 2.44 2011 - 2.52 2013 - 2.6 2015 - 2.71 2017 - 2.81 2019 - 2.85 2020 - 3.38 2021 - 3.46 2022 - 3.27 There’s like 400K-500K extra deaths there in 2020 all of a sudden. Let’s look up what the reported COVID deaths are for 2020, 2021, 2022. 2020 had 352,00 COVID deaths according to Johns Hopkins. 2021 had 353,000 according to the same. 2022 had 245,000 according to the CDC If anything, it feels like we are somewhat _undercounting_ deaths due to COVID. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/8 "2024-05-04T16:08:51Z")
Maybe I’m missing something here, but dead’s dead. Why would she be angry or upset about what the doctor put on the death certificate? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/9 "2024-05-04T16:17:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Maybe I’m missing something here, but dead’s dead. Why would she be angry or upset about what the doctor put on the death certificate ? The idea was that the COVID death numbers were being artificially inflated. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/10 "2024-05-04T16:27:17Z")
Total excess deaths, by itself, isn’t necessarily the best metric, because that’ll also catch, for instance, excess deaths due to social distancing, and going by just the timing, it’ll be very difficult to distinguish those from deaths due to covid. You need a deeper dive into the data, like the one @bordelond linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/11 "2024-05-04T16:36:19Z")
But due to social distancing and all of those people staying home, other infectious diseases like the flu were less likely to spread. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/12 "2024-05-04T16:44:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > other infectious diseases like the flu were less likely to spread. And in the case of the flu, we have [direct evidence](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124915/flu-deaths-number-us/) that the [numbers](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/week20.htm) of flu cases and deaths were significantly lower for 2020 and 2021. ETA: And [not just in the US](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-has-disappeared-worldwide-during-the-covid-pandemic1/). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/13 "2024-05-04T16:51:24Z")
Also, if people were staying home rather than commuting to work, there should have been fewer traffic deaths. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/14 "2024-05-04T23:30:55Z")
One of my co-workers remarked that wearing a mask to help against covid prevented the usual colds and flu like symptoms she usually caught during the year. She was considering continuing to wear a mask. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/15 "2024-05-04T23:47:20Z")
On the other hand, it’s recommended that one check in with elderly relatives frequently, in person, to make sure that they’re remembering to take all of their meds, they’re remembering to eat, they’re not injured, and so on. People really do die from those things, and those deaths would be up from social isolation. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/16 "2024-05-04T23:47:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > if people were staying home rather than commuting to work, there should have been fewer traffic deaths. You’d think so, but [they went up.](https://www.gao.gov/blog/during-covid-19-road-fatalities-increased-and-transit-ridership-dipped) The best explanation I’ve heard for this is that less traffic made it possible to travel at higher rates of speed - which increases the likelihood of fatalities should a crash occur. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/17 "2024-05-05T19:40:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Total excess deaths, by itself, isn’t necessarily the best metric, Oh, sure. But it’s a reasonable first-order approximation and when dealing with idiots that deny the COVID death toll, there’s no reason to make it more complex and caveat the hell out of it. The jump in death numbers is simple and clear. Have them figure out where all the deaths came from. FTR, I do think we are likely under- rather than overcounting. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-deaths-confirmed-vs-conspiracy/1001115/18 "2024-05-06T13:21:58Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > The idea was that the COVID death numbers were being artificially inflated. Also, the rumor that doctors were doing so in order to claim inflated reimbursements from Medicare etc. Plus… it’s all a hoax, right? [Are Doctors and Hospitals Paid More for COVID-19 Patients? | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/)