# Covid Related: Canadian soldier pleads guilty to two counts of prejudice to good order and discipline **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [November 14, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151 "2023-11-14T22:55:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/1 "2023-11-14T22:55:32Z")
While in uniform, released video criticizing mandatory Covid vaccines for serving military. Will likely be dismissed from the reserves. > **[Canadian military veteran who criticized COVID-19 vaccine mandate pleads guilty](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/canadian-military-veteran-who-criticized-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-pleads-guilty-1.6644629)** > > A former Canadian soldier who protested the federal government's COVID-19 vaccine requirements is facing a maximum punishment of dismissal with disgrace after pleading guilty in a military court Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/2 "2023-11-14T22:58:11Z")
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I’m doing enough head-shaking these days to get whiplash. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/3 "2023-11-15T20:10:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Will likely be dismissed from the reserves. Or being Canada, one week of half-rations of poutine. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/4 "2023-11-16T11:29:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Will likely be dismissed from the reserves. Excuse my ignorance - this is some sort of punishment, right? As we just don’t have this sort of thing in the UK (or at least, not in the same way, so far as I am aware) - what are the consequences? Loss of stipend, pension, medical care, something like that? j ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/5 "2023-11-16T14:24:10Z")
I don’t have much knowledge of Canadian military structure, but we have other posters who do. But yes, my understanding is that if you’re in the reserves, you get ongoing training and get paid for participating in regular sessions. Beyond that, I’m unsure. So I would expect he’s lost some income over this. Don’t know if there are any additional benefits; maybe excluded from future contributions to a military pension for the lost reserve work? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/6 "2023-11-16T15:54:36Z")
He’s lost a part time job. Also, I moved this to the quarantine zone. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/7 "2023-11-16T16:33:23Z")
The maximum punishment is listed as dismissal with disgrace, which sounds like it would be similar to a dishonorable discharge. (I couldn’t find much on dismissal with disgrace, but a lot of dishonorable discharge info popped up, so I’m guessing they might be similar.) That’s a pretty big deal. Much worse than just losing a part time job. > **[Dishonorable Discharge: Everything You Need to Know](https://www.military.com/benefits/military-legal/dishonorable-discharge-everything-you-need-know.html)** > > A "dishonorable discharge" is a type of military separation given as a punishment for a serious offense during military service. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/8 "2023-11-16T16:37:07Z")
Oh, I saw that he was dismissed, I missed that it was “with disgrace”. Yeah, that’s shameful, even if it doesn’t have material consequences. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/9 "2023-11-16T16:47:41Z")
If it’s similar to dishonorable discharge, there are lots of material consequences. ETA: he hasn’t been sentenced yet, so it’s as yet unknown if he’ll get the maximum panalty. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/10 "2023-11-16T17:15:08Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > The maximum punishment is listed as dismissal with disgrace, which sounds like it would be similar to a dishonorable discharge… Thanks for the link - very interesting. j ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/11 "2023-11-18T19:02:06Z")
As mentioned upthread, the court martial hasn’t yet ruled on sentence. In another article, defence was asking for a conditional discharge or a fine. I went looking for info on « dismissal with disgrace ». It’s one of the sentences set out in the National Defence Act: > [@](#): > > 141 (1) **If a court martial imposes a punishment of dismissal with disgrace** from Her Majesty’s service on an officer or non-commissioned member, **it may, in addition,** despite any other provision of this Division, **impose a punishment of imprisonment for less than two years.** > > … > > (2) **A person on whom a punishment of dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s service has been carried out is not** , except in an emergency or unless that punishment is subsequently set aside or altered, **eligible to serve Her Majesty again in any military or civil capacity.** So it’s a serious sentence, potentially including jail time, although it doesn’t sound like the prosecutor is asking for that in this case. The guy is apparently currently employed in a federal public service job, so dismissal with disgrace presumably means he loses his job. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/12 "2023-11-18T19:05:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Also, I moved this to the quarantine zone. Thanks. Wasn’t sure if this would be caught by the « no politics » rule for Quarantine Zone, so treated it as breaking news / MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/13 "2023-11-18T19:13:03Z")
Forgot to include link to the Queen’s Regs and Orders, which supplement the provisions of the National Defence Act: > **[QR&O: Volume II - Chapter 104 Punishments and Sentences - Canada.ca](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/queens-regulations-orders/vol-2-disciplinary/ch-104-punishments-sentences.html)** > > Queen's Regulations and Orders - QR&O - Chapter 104 - Punishments and Sentences ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/14 "2023-11-27T00:52:21Z")
Court-martial has ruled: Gave him a fine of $4,000 and a severe reprimand, which is one of the punishments listed in the Queen’s Regs & Orders. I assume that means he gets to keep his current job with the RCMP, and is not drummed out of the Reserves. > **[Reservist gets $4,000 fine, severe reprimand at court martial for anti-COVID...](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/james-topp-court-martial-severe-reprimand)** > > The judge said the case was not about James Topp's personal views regarding COVID vaccines, but about his breach of his military duties ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/15 "2023-11-27T01:06:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Queen’s Regs and Orders Aside: Are those now King’s Regs and Orders? Or is it based on who the monarch was at the last time they were revised? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/16 "2023-11-27T01:09:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > based on who the monarch was at the last time they were revised? This. Titles to statutes and regs need to be updated, so a legislative amendment is necessary. There are provisions in the _Interpretation Acts_ of each jurisdiction that say that references _in_ a statute or reg to “the Queen” automatically include a reference to “the King”, so those don’t need to be amended, but titles are different and need an amendment. Given that the next two in line are both male, once the titles are amended, the issue won’t come up again for a long time, unless something bad happens to little Prince George. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/17 "2023-12-20T07:03:08Z")
Been a loooong time since I wore the uniform, but they made it _very_ clear that the service took a _very_ dim view of being seen in uniform at any sort of protest or demonstration. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Given that the next two in line are both male, once the titles are amended, the issue won’t come up again for a long time, Side question, do they ever slow walk these changes when it looks like it will come up again soon? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/18 "2023-12-23T06:25:15Z")
It comes up so rarely that I don’t think there is a pattern. Since Confederation, there have only been three gender changes with new monarchs: 1901: from Queen Victoria to Edward VII, who was followed by three kings (George V, Edward VIII, George VI) 1952: from King George VI to Queen Elizabeth II 2023: from Queen Elizabeth II to King Charles III ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/19 "2023-12-23T07:21:56Z")
I wonder what it costs for reprinting everything plus all the new stationary? Is there a Court of King’s Bench in Saskatchewan? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151/20 "2023-12-23T13:11:38Z")
This was addressed in another of the Queen / King transition threads. They simply use up the old stuff before getting new. A small amount of stuff, e.g. Her Majesty’s personal notecards, are trhash of course, but the bulk of the governmental bureaucracy just keeps pressing on with the old until attrition finishes it off. I imagine as the monarch gets older there’s some effort by at least some forward-thinking supply agencies to taper down how much back stock they pre-order in advance of need. But the total cost of all that is still a small drop in the large bucket of total government expenditure. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-related-canadian-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-two-counts-of-prejudice-to-good-order-and-discipline/993151.md?page=2)