# Covid Vaccines in Canada
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089
**Category:** The Quarantine Zone
**Tags:** covid-quarantine
**Created:** [March 2, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089 "2021-03-02T04:00:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/81 "2021-03-28T04:42:51Z")
> [@peccavi](#):
>
> The J&J efficacy after two weeks is below 75%.
>
> Please back up bold assertions with facts. Especially when making statements that can influence people’s vaccination decisions.
Yes, back up assertions with facts. Here’s **the facts** about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine after 28 days (which is closer to the 21 and 28 days post 2nd dose of Moderna and Pfizer stats):
“…But the vaccine was shown to be 85% protective against severe disease, with no differences across the eight countries or three regions in the study, nor across age groups among trial participants. And there were no hospitalizations or deaths in the vaccine arm of the trial after the 28-day period in which immunity developed.” [from STAT News]
The ‘below 75% effective’ assertion about the J & J vaccine are not the full facts. Don’t be dissuaded about receiving the J & J vaccine if that is offered to you. After all, it’s trial showed 100% protection against hospitalization or death from Covid.
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### Author:  [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/82 "2021-03-28T09:35:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#):
>
> One of the failures of Trudeau’s response is that he went out of his way to avoid dealjng with the U.S., our neighbor and largest trading partner, and chose instead to deal with China. He seriously trusted freaking China instead of the U.S. China screwed us over, and the U.S. is swimming in vaccine. So much that they are talking of giving us some of their excess.
We made deals with American companies that the US won’t allow to be filled from the US. Moderna and Pfizer are US based companies but are supply comes from Europe because the US won’t allow exports. Most of our AZ is coming from India, even though it is being produced in the US.
How would negotiating earlier or more strongly have changed the situation on imports? The US finally allowed the export of 1.5M AstraZeneca doses that we have to give back to them later, likely to go to COVAX rather than used in the US. This is short-dated (60 days) and they have not even authorized AZ in their own country.
We’d be utterly screwed if we depended solely on the US. Great friends in a time of crisis?
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/83 "2021-03-28T14:12:23Z")
> [@peccavi](#):
>
> Please back up bold assertions with facts
What are you talking about? Yes, one shot has efficacy. Everyone taking those shots still needs a second shot, because that’s how those vaccines work. All the people in Canada who’ve gotten one shot need another and those vaccines must be acquired. You’re unaware of this?
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/84 "2021-03-28T15:53:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#):
>
> One of the failures of Trudeau’s response is that he went out of his way to avoid dealjng with the U.S., our neighbor and largest trading partner, and chose instead to deal with China.
If you think Trudeau (or anyone) could have talked Trump out of the America First policy that Biden has continued, then we have very different views of reality.
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### Author:  [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/85 "2021-03-28T16:56:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> You’re unaware of this?
Yes, I’m unaware of the medical consensus that post dose of 60+ efficacy is not considered “actually vaccinated”. Enlighten me.
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### Author:  [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/86 "2021-03-28T17:07:34Z")
I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
When counting the “protected population” of vaccinated people, the post-single dose population is, within a couple of weeks, reasonably protected, as can be seen by the two week post-dose of a single shot vaccine.
As far as I know compared to the typical 40-60% of the flu vaccine, any vaccine that has greater than about 70% efficacy is a home run.
I just don’t like considering someone vaccinated to a state of 70% efficacy not “actually vaccinated”. It discourages people from taking the available vaccine over waiting for the “best vaccine”.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/87 "2021-03-28T18:02:52Z")
> [@peccavi](#):
>
> I just don’t like considering someone vaccinated to a state of 70% efficacy not “actually vaccinated”. It discourages people from taking the available vaccine over waiting for the “best vaccine”.
Somehow I doubt my post will affect Ontarian vaccine hesitancy.
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### Author:  [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/88 "2021-03-28T18:59:24Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Playing with that I’m honestly impressed with [Morocco](https://worldcrunch.com/coronavirus/why-morocco-is-so-much-faster-than-europe-in-vaccination-race). They’ve got a ways to go as does everyone, but they have done a pretty good job for a non-1rst world country.
I read the linked article. Is kinda seems like propaganda. Quote from the article: **No supply problems**
On Jan. 28, in the royal palace in Fez, King Mohammed VI was the first to be vaccinated, sounding the starting gun for a national vaccination campaign. So far, 2.5 million Moroccans have had their first vaccination, in one of 2,888 centers. And every day the number grows by more than 100,000. Teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers and people over 75 have all been vaccinated already.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/89 "2021-03-28T19:11:33Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#):
>
> Is kinda seems like propaganda.
Did you look at that chart Sam Stone linked and I referenced? If you click Morocco and Europe on the left and add them [to the graph](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=329..429&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Vaccinations&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=CAN~USA~European%2BUnion~GBR~MAR~Europe) you can see how well they are doing. I did it with individual European countries and they still were out-performing all of them except islands like Malta or enclaves like Monaco. Which doesn’t mean they’re doing great in an objective sense, but I am always impressed when poorer countries out perform much wealthier ones.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/90 "2021-03-28T19:17:09Z")
Well, in this particular crisis they have what could be called an advantage. Many of these countries deal with infectious diseases frequently and so have some lower tech plans ready to go and practised. Meanwhile, western countries slash emergency resources because hey, it’s been years since a pandemic.
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### Author:  [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/91 "2021-03-28T19:21:59Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Did you look at that chart Sam Stone linked and I referenced? If you click Morocco and Europe on the left and add them [to the graph](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=329..429&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Vaccinations&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=CAN~USA~European%2BUnion~GBR~MAR~Europe) you can see how well they are doing. I did it with individual European countries and they still were out-performing all of them except islands like Malta or enclaves like Monaco. Which doesn’t mean they’re doing great in an objective sense, but I am always impressed when poorer countries out perform much wealthier ones.
I think you mixed up Monaco and Morocco.[COVID-19 Data Explorer - Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=329..429&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Vaccinations&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=CAN~USA~European%2BUnion~GBR~MCO~MAR) Monaco can get whatever it wants.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/92 "2021-03-28T19:29:27Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#):
>
> I think you mixed up Monaco and Morocco
🤔
Hmmm…no. No, I don’t think I did.
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### Author:  [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/93 "2021-03-28T19:32:52Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#):
>
> I think you mixed up Monaco and Morocco.[COVID-19 Data Explorer - Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=329..429&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Vaccinations&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=CAN~USA~European%2BUnion~GBR~MCO~MAR) Monaco can get whatever it wants.
Ok I went back and added individual European nations to the graph. Wow. But from the article you linked to, there may be some propaganda involved in Morocco’s numbers.
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### Author:  [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/94 "2021-03-28T19:36:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Hmmm…no. No, I don’t think I did.
Well put. My apologies.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2021, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/95 "2021-03-29T01:08:18Z")
So, we are at 12.15% today. The U.S. hit that number Feb 7, so we are about 7 weeks behind.
On March 9, When Fin was saying we were only 3-4 weeks behind, we were at 6.74% The U.S. hit that on Jan 28, so we were about 5 weeks behind.
So in three weeks we’ve fallen another two weeks behind.
If you look at the slopes, we can expect to continue falling behind the U.S. every week, until something changes - their rate slows, or our rate picks up. We can expect both of those eventually, but it sure isn’t looking like it will be soon.
I just got a facebook notice that some pharmacies are now acceptjng ‘limited’ appointments for 65+. That was supposed to happen two weeks ago, without the ‘limited’ part.
The U.S. vaccination rate is currently .74 per hundred per day. Ours is .37. The U.S. passed that rate on January 7, almost three months ago.
There is no way to spin Canada’s performance as anything hut horrible.
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/96 "2021-03-29T02:04:44Z")
And yet your primary suggestion for how Canada could be doing better is to have tried to buy vaccines from a country which has a de facto export ban going.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/97 "2021-03-29T02:28:26Z")
I see that the booking system here in Ontario allows those 75 or older to book at a mass immunization clinic through the provincial online system, where the vaccines offered are Pfizer or Moderna, and those 60 or older have to book at a pharmacy and only the AstraZeneca vaccine is being offered right now.
What to do … what to do … I think I’ll wait and see how things develop in Phase II in April. I’m pretty sure that the pharmacy appointments are booked really far ahead anyway, if available at all.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2021, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/98 "2021-03-29T03:59:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> and those 60 or older have to book at a pharmacy and only the AstraZeneca vaccine is being offered right now.
My mother, 74, got her first AZ dose last week, in Kingston.
I’m 49, so to be honest there’ll be no vaccines for me for quite some time.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/99 "2021-03-29T17:31:06Z")
Also 49. My mother (77) got her vaccine on Saturday. I’m expecting mine in May here in BC. But what worries me is that her second dose is scheduled for July, and I am still not clear on whether that is a scientifically chosen interval, or not.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/100 "2021-03-29T17:45:41Z")
My mom lives in BC and has her second shot scheduled for April. I thought they were not extending the booster time out there.
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