# Covid Vaccines in Canada
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089
**Category:** The Quarantine Zone
**Tags:** covid-quarantine
**Created:** [March 2, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089 "2021-03-02T04:00:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/161 "2021-04-19T20:13:09Z")
It looks to me like the risk is blood clots in the brain from birth control pills is higher than the risk of blood clots in the brain from the vaccines. And both of those are lower than the risk of blood clots in the legs from bc.
The vaccine clots are weird, though, since they happen with abnormally low platelet levels, and will be aggravated if the doctors give you heparin
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/162 "2021-04-19T20:14:37Z")
> [@FigNorton](#):
>
> You are bullshitting when you compare blood clots caused by estrogen based birth control,
You may want to be careful what you accuse people of outside the Pit.
As to the merits of the comparison, give me a break. “They’re DIFFERENT blood clots!!1!” does not change the usefulness of the comparison of relative levels of risk to illustrate how safe the vaccine is.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/163 "2021-04-19T20:15:34Z")
Yeah. It’s a really useful comparison, because most women between 20-60 have thought about using hormonal birth control and about the risks.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/164 "2021-04-19T20:16:13Z")
Cite? These seem very different things and I have not seen anyone make that specific claim. It’s always been “more chance of clots” full stop. From link:
> [@](#):
>
> While oral contraceptives and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine can both cause abnormal blood clots, they do so through two different processes. Taylor, who wrote an [article](https://theconversation.com/blood-clot-risks-comparing-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-the-contraceptive-pill-158652) comparing the CVST clots caused by the AstraZeneca vaccine in the U.K. to oral contraceptive clots, says that blood clotting is a complex process, and clots can form in many different ways with different effects on the body.
>
> Oral contraceptive pills increase the levels of certain proteins that help the body with the natural clotting process. Sometimes, when these so-called “clotting factors” are abundant in the blood, there are increased chances of blood clumping.
>
> Unlike the vaccine-induced CVST, which mostly affects the brain, these clots usually occur in veins in the leg.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/165 "2021-04-19T20:18:47Z")
I gave you a link the other day. It didn’t give actually frequency, but it listed estrogen-containing birth control as one of the most likely reasons to have a blood clot in your brain. The same place as the vaccine clots.
It’s the wikipedia article about that kind of brain clot.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/166 "2021-04-19T20:19:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> You may want to be careful what you accuse people of outside the Pit.
>
> As to the merits of the comparison, give me a break. “They’re DIFFERENT blood clots!!1!” does not change the usefulness of the comparison of relative levels of risk to illustrate how safe the vaccine is.
That was a general “you”. Are you stating with confidence that there is no risk difference between a blood clot in your brain and a blood clot in your leg?
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/167 "2021-04-19T20:23:03Z")
Unless you spell out the frequency of brain clots happening due to birth control pills, what are we comparing? The worst thing the pill can do to you or something that happens as frequently as in the vaccination?
Eta: I just looked at the wikipedia article. Hormonal birth control is one of a dozen risk factors that are usually present in someone who develops a CVST.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/168 "2021-04-19T20:32:30Z")
**FigNorton** , I appreciated the point that all blood clots are not the same, and that generalized blood comparisons may obfuscate the risks of any given action or lack thereof. After that, however, your argument goes off the rails.
I wrote and deleted a lot more, as I think I’d get a warning outside the Pit. I appreciate the good points you bring up to challenge the received wisdom, but I rather less appreciate the lines of argument that just appear to be contrarian.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/169 "2021-04-19T20:34:47Z")
What in the world is contrarian about it? I used the same argument a couple of times with acquaintances and I’m now a little embarrassed because I think it misrepresents both the risk of birth control and the vaccine.
It looks like the problem with AZ killed about 1/1M people who took it. Honest question: do birth control pills kill one in a million women?
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/170 "2021-04-19T20:44:08Z")
Would it be too much to ask that the AZ clotting discussion be taken to the thread about AZ clotting, and leave this for discussion of vaccine distribution & availability etc?
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/171 "2021-04-19T20:45:37Z")
Ok, I’m sorry. I will join any further discussion in a different thread.
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### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/172 "2021-04-19T22:44:12Z")
I created a separate thread about blood clots. The media is not always giving much useful information about them, and the risk.
> [@Blood Clot Information](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blood-clot-information/940332):
>
> With the concern of blood clots due to the AstraZeneca vaccine, the issue has been much in the news. The news rarely reports items in much depth, often interviewing contradicting experts. The goal of this report is to give a more in-depth treatment about clots, for the purpose of public education. It is not an issue which would make me, an emergency doctor with some ICU experience, hesitate to get the AZ vaccine for that reason. But what do we know about blood clots? Blood normally contai…
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### Author:  [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/173 "2021-04-19T22:46:07Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#):
>
> Which I don’t understand, unless that is only for the ‘at risk’ populations. According to the Ontario COVID site, it still won’t be until July that people under 59 are eligible.
You are under the assumption that logic and planning went into this, rather than “oh shit, the 55+ crowd doesn’t want Astra and we are going to have to throw away a bunch of expired vaccines and can not blame another level of government”. They have a “plan”, not a plan.
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### Author:  [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/174 "2021-04-20T22:48:26Z")
Doctor’s office sent out an email this morning about providing shots this weekend so I’m in Saturday morning!
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/175 "2021-04-20T23:32:05Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#):
>
> You are under the assumption that logic and planning went into this, rather than “oh shit, the 55+ crowd doesn’t want Astra and we are going to have to throw away a bunch of expired vaccines
What’s illogical about that? Why would you criticize them for adapting to the reality that people have been scared off AZ.
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### Author:  [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/176 "2021-04-20T23:56:15Z")
> [@FigNorton](#):
>
> What’s illogical about that? Why would you criticize them for adapting to the reality that people have been scared off AZ.
Adapting is good, not forseeing the situation is bad.
As the grateful recipient of one of those AstraZeneca shots about 4 hours ago, I’m glad they reallocated. After pushing the age cap from 55 down to 40, effective today, there are virtually no free shots available and people are spending hours re-entering their info on multiple sites or calling the pharmacies who can’t handle the volume. Apparently us GenXers were just waiting to get the younger boomers out of the way, they are now complaining they can’t get Astra because there are no appointments left which they didn’t **want** two days ago.
There are now approximately 20 different eligibility groups for 2 classes of vaccines. Each pharmacy chain or individual store has phone appointments, online booking, or online wait listing for Astra. The province, the city of Toronto, and about 2 dozen healthcare groups (mostly hospital sponsored) have a different booking system for Pfizer & Moderna. Other areas of the province may or may not have their own booking system. It’s a complete shitshow that the government could and **should** have foreseen and planned for. The official plan, last updated less than 2 weeks ago, is in tatters.
This is a government that shut down playgrounds and legalized police stops on Sunday and had to reverse themselves 12 hours later. There are no grownups in the room.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/177 "2021-04-21T00:01:05Z")
That’s how it’s working in most of the States that have double the vaccinated numbers of Ontario. Look in the “who’s been vaccinated” threads. People signing up through Costco, CVS or Walgreens. Some at mass clinics, some at their doctor’s office. Blaming the province for not ordering the pharmacies to make some shared appointment system is not remotely fair. One of the reason to use the pharmacy chains is because they already have infrastructure for giving shots.
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### Author:  [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/178 "2021-04-21T00:42:30Z")
There should have been ONE booking system in Ontario. While the pharmacies have the ability to give shots, they had virtually no scheduling capabilities with their in house systems. The province should have provided a system, not “forced them” to use one.
With the rare exception of some unhoused people and people incountry with out legal status, every person in the province has a provincial health card. I’ve been in the software business for 30 years and we could have written the system in under 4 months given that database. There is a Twitter account called @VaxHuntersCan that’s gone from 0 to 113000 followers in 3 weeks as people try and figure out where and when they can get vaccinated.
The pharmacists already have to use the provincial system to issue the receipts and record the vaccine against our health cards. I had my shot at Costco and received the emailed receipt before I sat down for my mandatory 15 minute wait afterwards. They managed to get this part correct.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/179 "2021-04-21T00:47:18Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#):
>
> The pharmacists already have to use the provincial system to issue the receipts and record the vaccine against our health cards
That is not remotely connected to a province wide reservation system. I think there’s probably some benefits to chains and localities having control of distribution.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covid-vaccines-in-canada/934089/180 "2021-04-21T00:50:35Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#):
>
> With the rare exception of some unhoused people and people incountry with out legal status, every person in the province has a provincial health card.
Is that connected to your phone number?
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