# Covington Catholic High (in case it hasn't been mentioned already) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090 "2019-01-20T02:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/281 "2019-01-22T00:13:15Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t care if the Black Israelites ‘started it’; the little shits started it when they wore a MAGA hat to an anti-abortion rally. If you want to protest abortion, then protest abortion. Don’t wear a white hood or a swastika; otherwise, people might “misunderstand” you. The only mercy I have it in my heart to give is on account of their age. I was an insensitive wise-ass when I was in my teens, too, so maybe they’ll grow out of it. But it’s important that this be a teachable moment. Fuck them. When I was but a couple of years older than them I was a rentacop at an abortion clinic. Opening day was…interesting. If I can take a little open hostility so can these fucking fucks. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/282 "2019-01-22T00:28:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No one cares about the Black Hebrews because they’re known nutjobs. They stand on street corners yelling mean things looking for attention. Apropos of (I guess) nothing really, this is why I don’t give a shit about the anti-choice idiots: They’re known nutjobs. They stand on street corners yelling mean things looking for attention. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/283 "2019-01-22T00:43:32Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > If those children had any common sense, I know I’m not the first one to mention this anywhere, but it certainly bears repeating: > [@](#): > > There is no such thing as common sense. Note, that doesn’t mean that it exists but only in a minority of people. It simply means “common sense” does not exist at all. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/284 "2019-01-22T00:45:07Z")
Josh Marshall at TPM provides a take on all the footage. [Making Sense of the Phillips-Sandmann Viral Video - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/making-sense-of-the-phillips-sandman-viral-video) It includes the 2 hour video which I have not plowed through. ## Select quote: The upshot is that when you see all the videos, not just the one that initially spread like wildfire, you get a lot more context to what led up to that video moment. But it doesn’t greatly change the substance of what you see on the video, which is a middle aged Native American activist/elder beating a ceremonial drum in the face of what appears to be a bemused and cocky teenager while his classmates surrounding them, mostly wearing MAGA caps, jeer and taunt the man with chopping motions. To me, Sandman’s grin looks self-satisfied and arrogant. You can see that part as well as I can. So make your own judgments. I think the focus should be on the school and the irresponsibility of the organizers of this annual March for Life, who encourage teens to act in obnoxious ways. Here’s a tweet essay by a progressive who has viewed the material. She substantiates her interpretations with footage. [Thread by @lisasharper: "I've been watching videos all day. I have one thing to say (in a bunch of tweets, so hold on): The videos BACK UP/STRENGTHEN Mr. Nathan Phil […]" #IndigenousPeoplesMarch #IPMDC19 #CovingtonCatholicHighSchool #walkaway](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087174914673655809.html) [https://twitter.com/lisasharper/status/1087174914673655809](https://twitter.com/lisasharper/status/1087174914673655809) Interesting quote: Phillips shared in early testimony that he intended to go through the crowd to the top of the steps to sing the AIM song from that perch. In this upcoming video you see what I believe is the MOST IMPORTANT MOMENT of this controversy… 19/ Mr. Phillips goes right, then left, then tries to go through the center. Most of the group seems to understand and make a way for him, except the boy who didn’t move. Mr. Phillips said the boy blocked his path. He did. 20/ Phillips wants to walk up the steps. Smiley Teenface blocks his path. Again, teens do stupid shit. But conservative characterizations of the event - that Phillips walked up to Teenface - reflect compromised perceptions and weak character. Phillips was clearly trying to make his way through a crowd. Set aside respecting the elderly: this was a case of blocking traffic (within a crowd, though not on a sidewalk). Viewable in first 40 seconds of this you tube vid: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=39&v=wRyUlbgWCP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=wRyUlbgWCP0) ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/285 "2019-01-22T01:31:00Z")
I’m glad that an air-tight consensus was reached as to what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/286 "2019-01-22T01:31:05Z")
I have to ask, what facial expression would have been appropriate? I mean, it’s obviously a painted smile in response to conflict, but what else would one expect? Should he be crying? Smiling, but more beatifically? Revealing with a grief-stricken countenance the shame inspired deep in his soul? I’m not defending Sandman, his cohort, or his positions, but so much of the criticism of this kid specifically seems to be that he wore the wrong facial expression. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/287 "2019-01-22T01:44:55Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Nah, don’t rescind. Your [post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21443872&postcount=263) (#263) was awesome and I endorse it. > > Basically all virtue signaling is based on real outrage, if by real you mean something that is felt. It’s the way our minds work. We pose for our tribe. > > Not me of course. My thoughts tend to arrive in pairs: I always try humble brag see both sides of the issue but only because of my sheer moral superiority LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME. Virtue signaling is a right wing term that means the person doesn’t actually believe what they are saying, and are just saying it to signal their own personal righteousness. So it inherently means the outrage is fake, used only to make them look better. In practice, it is used primarily as an ad honinem attack against liberals when they make moral claims. It is used against any moral argument as a way to invalidatei I propose that those of us on the left shouldn’t use this term, as it only helps validate a worldview where morals are just arbitrary words used to support political ideas. Such is the same reason for popularizing “politically correct,” “SJW,” etc. All are about saying that liberals don’t really mean what they say. Even if you think there is a real concept buried under the bad usage, it’s not worth validating the bad usage. And any argument that a statement is empty rhetoric should be backed up, not just dismissed with a thought terminating cliche. I feel really strong about this attempt by the right to modify our language to fit their ideas. I think it is a large part of the spread of the otherwise obviously bad fascistic alt-right. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/288 "2019-01-22T01:46:55Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I have to ask, what facial expression would have been appropriate? I mean, it’s obviously a painted smile in response to conflict, but what else would one expect? Should he be crying? Smiling, but more beatifically? Revealing with a grief-stricken countenance the shame inspired deep in his soul? When I’m confused and afraid, as I think this kid has claimed, I look confused and afraid. When I’m grateful to someone, as he could have been if he’d realized the drummer was trying to defuse (not diffuse!) the situation, I look grateful. When I’m confident because I’m surrounded by my whooping and tomahawk-chopping friends, and I’m blocking someone’s way because I know I can get away with it, I have a smug smirk all over my face. That said, did anyone ask that kid to move? I’ve watched about 2 minutes of video, which is about all I can take. A “Hey, kid, let him pass!” would’ve cleared up the situation remarkably. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/289 "2019-01-22T01:47:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Edit: AMAZING GRACE, fercryinoutloud. Why school chants? I went to a Catholic high school. Honestly? It doesn’t seem so mysterious to me. We didn’t know the lyrics to hymns or anything like that. I can’t get past a few lines of Amazing Grace. But almost everybody knew the fight song (hell, twenty five years on and a Catholic faith down the tube, and I could still sing the school fight song), so if we all wanted to shout something together to drown out other folks shouting, school chants would be an obvious choice. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/290 "2019-01-22T01:50:05Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I have to ask, what facial expression would have been appropriate? I mean, it’s obviously a painted smile in response to conflict, but what else would one expect? Should he be crying? Smiling, but more beatifically? Revealing with a grief-stricken countenance the shame inspired deep in his soul? > > I’m not defending Sandman, his cohort, or his positions, but so much of the criticism of this kid specifically seems to be that he wore the wrong facial expression. Basically he should get the fuck out of the way and let the man continue to his destination. His expression, in this case, only serves to solidify the narrative that he is an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/291 "2019-01-22T01:51:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I went to a Catholic high school. Honestly? It doesn’t seem so mysterious to me. We didn’t know the lyrics to hymns or anything like that. I’m ignorant about Catholic school culture. But it seems to me that if you’re (impersonal you) religious enough to travel many hours in a bus to protest reproductive freedom, maybe you should learn some fuckin hymns to sing along the way. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/292 "2019-01-22T01:56:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Virtue signaling is a right wing term that means the person doesn’t actually believe what they are saying, and are just saying it to signal their own personal righteousness. > > So it inherently means the outrage is fake, used only to make them look better. > > In practice, it is used primarily as an ad honinem attack against liberals when they make moral claims. It is used against any moral argument as a way to invalidatei > > I propose that those of us on the left shouldn’t use this term, as it only helps validate a worldview where morals are just arbitrary words used to support political ideas. Such is the same reason for popularizing “politically correct,” “SJW,” etc. All are about saying that liberals don’t really mean what they say. > > Even if you think there is a real concept buried under the bad usage, it’s not worth validating the bad usage. And any argument that a statement is empty rhetoric should be backed up, not just dismissed with a thought terminating cliche. > > I feel really strong about this attempt by the right to modify our language to fit their ideas. I think it is a large part of the spread of the otherwise obviously bad fascistic alt-right. I’m not going to stop saying “virtue signaling”. I can’t think of a better way of describing people who shit their pants over football players who kneel during the NA but who don’t have a problem with people booing those players during the NA. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/293 "2019-01-22T02:06:39Z")
The Atlantic has a good article this evening. **[Stop Trusting Viral Videos](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/viral-clash-students-and-native-americans-explained/580906/)** A controversial video of Catholic students clashing with American Indians appeared to tell a simple truth. A second video called that story into question. But neither shows what truly happened. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/294 "2019-01-22T02:06:55Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > My folks would have kicked my ass for acting like that. > > Also, that bit about churches staying away from politics is fucking bullshit. I used to go to church. They DID try to tell the suckers (I mean faithful) how to vote. I did, too. In fact, I’ve gone to many churches. I’ve never been told how to vote. I’ve been fed messages about abortion being wrong, of course, and stuff about how voting ins important, and I’ve faced the obvious social pressure to vote Republican because of that, but never once has anyone in the pulpit told me how to vote. I suspect this is because, if they did bring it up (and they were consistent with other sermons) ,they’d wind up having to tell people that the Democrats are right on many things. There’s no real way around it. Only Democrats push anything Jesus actually said: helping the poor, feeding the hungry, showing hospitality to the foreigner, pay your taxes, don’t worry about material things, etc. But this would heavily insult the congregation who definitely lean Republican in this country–because of abortion, basically. And then they adopt everything else. I won’t say that churches don’t talk about it, but it made the [number 1 spot in the video](https://youtu.be/tA0WK2r6mFc?t=9m59s) of things people wish the Church would talk about. (And, don’t get me wrong. They did talk about abortion itself being wrong, but they stayed away from saying “You should vote for the Republican because he is pro-life.” ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/295 "2019-01-22T02:12:46Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Basically he should get the fuck out of the way and let the man continue to his destination. His expression, in this case, only serves to solidify the narrative that he is an ass. So the facial expression that would have been more appropriate for that situation would be “don’t be in that situation”? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/296 "2019-01-22T02:24:54Z")
An interesting take. > **[Opinion | How We Destroy Lives Today (Published 2019)](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/opinion/covington-march-for-life.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage)** > > Will the Covington Catholic High School fiasco change social media? Hopefully it doesn’t get in the way of more recreational outrage. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/297 "2019-01-22T02:31:57Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > So the facial expression that would have been more appropriate for that situation would be “don’t be in that situation”? He had a simple choice - stand in the persons way - smirking - or moving out of the way. He was not standing between the drummer and someone that needed protecting from the drummer - nor was the drummer acting in a violent or confrontational way - its easy to see it was a native chant/ceremony. If he were trying to avoid confrontation - he steps to the side (he can still smirk, make fun, etc). If he wanted to try and provoke a confrontation - he stands there smirking. I know which one I would expect a ‘christian’ to do, and which one I expect an ass to do. (christian is irrelevant, but thats what the smirking kid claims to be representing here, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/298 "2019-01-22T02:40:45Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Reading the comments - apparently this was a ‘blackout’ game, and the kids are saying they had full-body paint, so it wasn’t blackface per se. At least two of them look like they just stepped out of a minstrel show in full-body paint. Note the white “lips”; one clown even has a forced smile. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/299 "2019-01-22T02:41:21Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Totally with you. I don’t think they should be doxxed though. And the way the kid is being held up as some ultimate personification of evil is over the top. Unfortunately, in this day and age of social media, doxxing is inevitable. As much as I despise the little shit’s behavior, and as pessimistic as I am about his ability to change, I am willing to write one off to the smugness of being young, dumb, and full of…well, you know. As I said, I was a smug little shit once - and look how I turned out. On second thought… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/300 "2019-01-22T02:42:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m not going to stop saying “virtue signaling”. I can’t think of a better way of describing people who shit their pants over football players who kneel during the NA but who don’t have a problem with people booing those players during the NA. That doesn’t fit the definition. Virtue signaling is saying something to make yourself look good. What you describe is just garden-variety hypocrisy. They tell the others to do something, but don’t practice what they preach. And this proves they are lying about why they are upset. Don’t get me wrong: I will use their own words ironically back at them, just to show how stupid they are. I’ll call them “SJWs” when they complain about injustice for white people, say they’re being PC when they tell us not to use the word “racist,” or call them “snowflakes” when they get offended by obvious jokes. But I will continue to argue that people shouldn’t use their terms legitimately. It just does a short circuit around having to actually come up with a concrete idea, convince people that the idea has merit, and then coin a term for the idea. Instead, they coin a term, and let people just have it mean what they want. And then arguing over whether someone is a SJW, virtue signaller, PC-police, etc. becomes a legitimate topic. I’ve been big on this since not long after Trump’s election, when I wondered how so many people could fall for his bullshit, and I started to become aware of the tactics his side uses to control the conversation in their favor, despite not having good ideas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090.md?page=16)