# Covington Catholic High (in case it hasn't been mentioned already) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090 "2019-01-20T02:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/101 "2019-01-20T22:38:55Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I think your outrage isn’t genuine, **Evil Economist**. Yes, you’re surprised that anyone could genuinely be upset at the thought of a bunch of shitty kids harassing a Native American veteran. I bet you’d have no problem understanding the level of outrage if it had been a bunch of shitty “ethnic” kids harassing a white veteran in a MAGA hat. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/102 "2019-01-20T22:59:52Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Phillips said, "He just blocked my way and wouldn’t allow me to retreat.” > > This is the same as “prevented from leaving.” Blocked his way forward, and wasn’t allowed to retreat. …no it is not the same. Stop pretending to care about “fake news” when you are guilty of spreading fake news. He never claimed he was “prevented from leaving” only that one person blocked his way forward which didn’t allow him to “retreat.” “Retreat” may or may not have been the wrong word for him to use, but from the context of the rest of the sentence we can see exactly what he meant. > [@](#): > > From the Washington Post: > > “In an interview Saturday, Phillips, 64, said he felt threatened by the teens and that they swarmed around him as he and other activists were wrapping up the march and preparing to leave.” > > The Washington Post claims this. Are you going to argue they fabricated this statement from Phillips? I asked for an exact quote. This isn’t an exact quote. Who were the other activists he was talking about, the ones with him or all of the activists at that location? By “wrapping up the march” did he mean wrapping up activities for the day or wrapping up during the confrontation with the boys? We don’t have enough information here to know the exact context of what was being talked about here. Your claim is that what Phillips put forward has been debunked. This isn’t a debunking. > [@](#): > > There’s no evidence that chant was made. He made a positive claim with zero evidence. I do believe some people have come out of the woodwork claiming to have been there and that the chant was made, but the video evidence does not back this up. Maybe some audio analysis would back it up, but as of yet, this is an unverified claim. So not a debunking. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > Not a substantive rebuttal I can really do anything with. Its as substantive as your claim “The video clearly debunks major points put forth by Phillips.” > [@](#): > > The most important thing is that he clearly walks over to the crowd in the extended video, bangs his drum very close to one kid’s face for over a minute, then walks away. > While BI hurls homophobic and racial slurs at them. The most important thing here is that nothing I’ve just quoted from you differs at all from what we were told happened by Phillips. > [@](#): > > The portrayal that these kids swarmed Phillips and taunted him and hurled racial taunts at him is completely false. We literally see the kids swarming Phillips. We can see the “tomahawk chops.” We can hear what they are saying and we are entitled to make our own judgements as to what their intent was. This is not “completely false.” What is false was your statement the “video clearly debunks major points put forth by Phillips”. The video does not do this. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/103 "2019-01-20T23:03:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > we need to crush them. That is what is best in life. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/104 "2019-01-20T23:27:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > All of what you say is true…which is all the more reason why it’s stupid to bring a big group of teenagers to a politically-charged protest march. In the middle of a partial govt shutdown, no less. With fed workers all over the place, angry and stressed about paychecks not coming while their chief executive treats them like garbage. March for Life, lol. More like Run for Your Life. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/105 "2019-01-20T23:29:56Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > This is what I’m talking about. You saw this earlier with **[Mr. Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21441592&postcount=51)**: “Dream faster”, in response to provable claim that the racial slurs were coming from the BI people, not the kids. What was said was that the students weren’t making the slurs, no mention was made of BI, and with the followup line of **'the narrative is falling apart!** ’ as if the BI being jerkasses vindicated the kids antics. That’s why I said ‘Dream Faster’. His reply did mention the others in the field but, again, this is not make the narrative fall apart as he wished. > [@](#): > > **[Evil Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21442026&postcount=87)**: “You disregard clear video evidence in favor of what you’ve been told to see. You’re the problem, buddy.” > > When presented with arguments about the details of the video, and how it conflicts with Phillips’ account, or how this story isn’t how it’s being portrayed, just quick little one-liners and insults. No explanation, no description of how it’s wrong. Just steadfast dedication to the narrative. > > I’d be the first one to jump on board if the video showed otherwise. The truth is the most important thing. I can only hope that an average person not too invested one way or the other is exposed to the videos and the arguments from the kids’ perspective. I think such a person would agree that these kids are being targeted and vilified unfairly. Your claims of conflict are actually not conflicts at all. For example in your first post you triumphed this line: > [@](#): > > Further, additional video shows Phillips approaching the crowd, not that he was approached and surrounded. So right off the bat you are telling a lie since Phillips’ own account says he approached them trying to diffuse the previous conflict but ended up surrounded. > [@](#): > > It got pretty intense, Taitano said, so Nathan Phillips, an elder with the Omaha tribe, started playing his drum and chanting what she was told was a healing prayer, to help defuse the situation. > Phillips walked through the crowd, and Taitano said things were starting to calm down until he got to the grinning boy seen in the video. > “This one kid just refused to move and he just got in Nathan’s face,” she said. > Other boys circled around, she said. “They just surrounded him and they were mocking him and mocking the chant. We really didn’t know what was going to happen there.” Then your try to misrepresent: > [@](#): > > He then bangs his drum inches from the kid’s face for quite some time He was banging the drum before smirk boy got in the way, and he kept on banging it. And your claim of inches doesn’t really hold up. You’ve also tried to extend the time of said drumming in the smirking kids favor and got called on it. This rightwing rewriting of the story happened after Charlottesville and here we are with people buying into their narrative wholesale. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/106 "2019-01-20T23:37:03Z")
These kids probably wanted to make a viral video. Guess what? They did. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/107 "2019-01-20T23:53:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > shit. God help the motherfucker who wears a MAGA hat in my face. What are you going to do, other than running away like a little girl? ---
**Author:** ![Elmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e9a140/32.png) [@Elmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmore)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/108 "2019-01-21T00:15:47Z")
Phillips went over to the kids. The kids didn’t go over to him. Once Phillips went over to the kids, the kids moved round him in a kind of horseshoe formation. This means he could’ve left whenever he wanted by doing a 180 and walking back the way he came, which is what he eventually did. The kids acted like little assholes. They were a large group of teenage boys. Of _course_ they acted like little assholes. You think they were going to take a knee? Teenage boys are assholes, especially in a group. Teenage girls too, for that matter. At no point did anyone chant “Build a wall”. There was, however, an Indian man telling the kids they should “Go back to Europe”, which is much closer to build a wall than anything those kids said. Honestly, if they hadn’t been wearing MAGA hats, and if that one kid in particular didn’t have such an obnoxious shit eating grin, no-one would’ve given a shit. My twitter is EXPLODING with people calling for this kids head on a plate. I don’t think wearing a Trump hat and looking like a smug prick are worth a public shaming, especially since the internet never forgets. Frankly, everyone comes out of this looking bad. The Indians come off bad, because they marched into a massive crowd of teenage boys banging a drum and telling them to get back to Europe. Who in their right minds does that and thinks they won’t be mocked? The kids came off bad because they responded with dumbassed racist stuff like tomahawk signs and woop-woop noises. The twitter mob comes off bad because (a) they’re trying to fuck up a kid for that hat and for having a punchable face and (b) because they’re so obviously loving every minute of this. Everyone just needs to drop it so they can salvage what little dignity they have left. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/109 "2019-01-21T00:28:05Z")
> [@Elmore](#): > > Phillips went over to the kids. The kids didn’t go over to him. Once Phillips went over to the kids, the kids moved round him in a kind of horseshoe formation. This means he could’ve left whenever he wanted by doing a 180 and walking back the way he came, which is what he eventually did. No, it was a 360 degree surround. Post 12 (though the vid was taken down). They weren’t blocking like football linemen, but they were surrounding the guy, as teens tend to do. > [@](#): > > Frankly, everyone comes out of this looking bad. The Indians come off bad, because they marched into a massive crowd of teenage boys banging a drum and telling them to get back to Europe. “The Indians”? It was one guy, Phillips. Who marched into 2 crowds that were getting in each others faces. That was an act of bravery, or possibly foolishness. The drum acted as a distraction, calming what was a potentially violent situation. It was an act of heroism, which isn’t easy to pull off. I agree that the teens were acting like teens do. But since this crap happens every year, criticism is properly directed against the adult organizers of this operation. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/110 "2019-01-21T01:09:52Z")
I feel like part of the problem is that the Native Americans (there were multiple guys…the old guy wasn’t the only one playing a drum) should have not gotten involved if all they were going to do is bang drums and sing. I hate to say that, but I do think that it created some confusion. I could see how kids hopped up on testosterone and adrenaline would not interpret their presence as "diffusing the tension"and instead find it provocative. I can also see how goofy teenagers would be confused about how to show proper respect in that situation and thus default to silly antics (like the Tomahawk chop). Which is why I’m putting a lot of the blame on the school. In none of the footage I’ve seen does there appear to be any authority figure telling the boys to knock it off or trying to corral them away. And some of the boys look rather young, so they definitely should have been supervised. [This video](https://www.instagram.com/p/BszyfEMFgw-/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again) shows that the Native Americans were swarmed by the boys as well as other onlookers. I can totally see why the old guy would have felt blocked in. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/111 "2019-01-21T01:54:51Z")
I have little to add except that I would have been one of these kids 25 years ago. People change. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/112 "2019-01-21T01:56:47Z")
That old guy was annoying as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/113 "2019-01-21T02:05:42Z")
The right-wing Christian garbage was free to take their Trump hats and fuck right off at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/114 "2019-01-21T02:19:14Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I feel like part of the problem is that the Native Americans (there were multiple guys…the old guy wasn’t the only one playing a drum) should have not gotten involved if all they were going to do is bang drums and sing. I hate to say that, but I do think that it created some confusion. I could see how kids hopped up on testosterone and adrenaline would not interpret their presence as "diffusing the tension"and instead find it provocative. I can also see how goofy teenagers would be confused about how to show proper respect in that situation and thus default to silly antics (like the Tomahawk chop). > > Which is why I’m putting a lot of the blame on the school. In none of the footage I’ve seen does there appear to be any authority figure telling the boys to knock it off or trying to corral them away. And some of the boys look rather young, so they definitely should have been supervised. > > [This video](https://www.instagram.com/p/BszyfEMFgw-/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again) shows that the Native Americans were swarmed by the boys as well as other onlookers. I can totally see why the old guy would have felt blocked in. I disagree. We should treat these students as our society would treat teenagers of color. In other words: as fully functioning adults from the age of infancy. Whether it be Tamir Rice (e.g. “It was the child’s fault for deliberately using his paycheck to buy a toy gun\* without\* an orange tip”) or Trayvon Martin (“He’s not a child, he’s an adult! He knew better!”), teenagers and children of color are expected to have the faculties of fully functioning adults. IMO, these non-compassionate, non-empathetic animals should be afforded the same benefit of doubt as people of color. Period. These teenagers\* know that the MAGA hat is a symbol of hate and division\*; they are wearing it as a means to “troll the libs”, to invoke hate, to affirm white supremacy, and, more importantly,\* to hide their racism under the veneer of political affiliation\*. _This is all done to create the illusion of plausible deniability_. Think about Obama. Who do you know wore an Obama hat when it wasn’t 2008 or 2012? Like no one. You are, however, spot-on in your analysis of the school and encourage you to take a look at their [website](https://www.covcath.org/campus-life) - not a single person of color. Not. A. Single. One. The fact their graduates have a history of racism and bigotry is all you need to make a judgment. This is the same kind of school that produces the Kavanaugh, Coulters, and Bannons of the world. Matthew 7:16 screams from the mountain tops. I’ll end with a comment I made awhile ago. Kuchiyose No Jutsu > [@Living while black in America](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1010): > > One more thing, white folks: Your children are more racist than you. Please know that. I know you’ll deny it and I know this pains you to hear, but it’s true. I feel safer with a self-absorbed, race-denying, Trump-voting baby boomer cop than I do with an angry, reddit-roaming, alcohol-drinking, incel-card carrying Millennial/GenXer cop. It goes to show you that you give a generation everything (literally, everything including the picket fence) and they can’t raise kids for shit. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/115 "2019-01-21T02:20:20Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > The right-wing Christian garbage was free to take their Trump hats and fuck right off at any time. This. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/116 "2019-01-21T03:35:11Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So, your entire argument is: some other group of people was being mean to the kids, so that justified their disgusting behavior toward an unrelated and innocent Native American veteran. > > You really are a piece of shit. Go learn some morals, shitbag. No, my argument is that everyone was egging on everyone else in that video - either a bit or a lot. No group(or Native American) in that video comes out entirely innocent. However, one group certainly comes across as appearing both more racist and homophobic than the others. Racial slurs and put downs were coming from all sides. The Native American being a vet makes no difference to me. It doesn’t let him(or his group) get away with making racist comments. I did note the drummer did not attempt to get in the faces of the Black Israelite group, the ones shouting the nastiest of comments. Btw in the video the boys begin to boo the Black speaker when they hear homophobic comments from him. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/117 "2019-01-21T03:52:17Z")
So here we have the first victim. [https://twitter.com/PikePlaceTechie/status/1087117202749378560](https://twitter.com/PikePlaceTechie/status/1087117202749378560) This is just terrible in every possible way. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/118 "2019-01-21T03:54:04Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What are you going to do, other than running away like a little girl? He’s going send a mean tweet.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/119 "2019-01-21T04:21:40Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > So here we have the first victim. > > [https://twitter.com/PikePlaceTechie/status/1087117202749378560](https://twitter.com/PikePlaceTechie/status/1087117202749378560) > > This is just terrible in every possible way. You wouldn’t know “terrible” if it bit you on the ass. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/120 "2019-01-21T04:30:17Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > The Native American being a vet makes no difference to me. It doesn’t let him(or his group) get away with making racist comments. Cite for that? Other reports don’t show that. > **[Fuller Picture Emerges of Viral Video of Native American Man and Catholic...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/nathan-phillips-covington.html)** > > A convergence of racial and religious groups set the stage for the viral moment. “I stepped in between to pray,” Nathan Phillips said on Sunday. > [@](#): > > A fuller and more complicated picture emerged on Sunday of the videotaped encounter between a Native American man and a throng of high school boys wearing “Make America Great Again” gear outside the Lincoln Memorial in Washington. > > Interviews and additional video footage suggest that an explosive convergence of race, religion and ideological beliefs — against a national backdrop of political tension — set the stage for the viral moment. Early video excerpts from the encounter obscured the larger context, inflaming outrage. > > Leading up to the encounter on Friday, a rally for Native Americans and other Indigenous people was wrapping up. Dozens of students from Covington Catholic High School in Kentucky, who had been in Washington for the anti-abortion March for Life rally, were standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, many of them white and wearing apparel bearing the slogan of President Trump. > > There were also black men who identified themselves as Hebrew Israelites, preaching their beliefs and shouting racially combative comments at the Native Americans and the students, according to witnesses and video on social media. > > Soon, the Native American man, Nathan Phillips, 64, was encircled by an animated group of high school boys. He beat a ceremonial drum as a boy wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat stood inches away. The boy identified himself in a statement released on Sunday night as Nick Sandmann, a junior. > > It was a provocative image that rocketed across social media, leading many, including the students’ own school, to condemn the boys’ behavior as disrespectful. But on Sunday, Mr. Phillips clarified that it was he who had approached the crowd and that he had intervened because racial tensions — primarily between the white students and the black men — were “coming to a boiling point.” > > “I stepped in between to pray,” Mr. Phillips said. > > In his statement, Mr. Sandmann said he did not antagonize or try to block Mr. Phillips. “I did not speak to him. I did not make any hand gestures or other aggressive moves,” he said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090.md?page=7)