# Cow-orker declares racisim & discrimination is \*everywhere\*! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896 "2004-04-30T20:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/1 "2004-04-30T20:33:05Z")
I just had to share this with the teeming masses. It all started with [some of six-year-old half-truths](http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/nuds.html). I’ve changed the name to protect me from the ignorant and reversed the message order to make it easier to read. > [@](#): > > From: Olsen, Jeff > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:38 PM > To: all > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > This is all well and good but bear in mind that the referenced Tom Joyner show and the list of companies are from 1998. > > From: P > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:51 PM > To: Olsen, Jeff > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION HAS BEEN IN EFFECT FOR MORE THAN 200 YEARS AND IT STILL CONTINUES > > From: Olsen, Jeff > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:58 PM > To: P > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > Pointing out racisim and discrimination where it doesn’t necessarily exist strikes me as counter productive. > > From: P > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:00 PM > To: Olsen, Jeff > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > IT EXISTS EVERYWHERE… YOU HAVE KNOW IDEA IN LESS YOU HAVE WALKED IN OUR SHOES IN OF DISCUSSION… HAVE A NICE DAY! > > From: Olsen, Jeff > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:09 PM > To: P > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > If it truly existed “everywhere”, I wouldn’t have a bi-racial nephew. > > From: P > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:17 PM > To: Olsen, Jeff > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > DON’T BE IN DENIAL… CONVERSATION OVER JEFF… > > From: Olsen, Jeff > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:26 PM > To: P > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > If racisim and discriminaton is everywhere, how’d a black man become a general in the United States Army? > > Sounds to me like you’re the one in denial. Have a good weekend. Holy shit, woman, did you forget that you and the majority of this division is black? As is the entire supervisiory staff? Hell, I think the agency as a whole is predominately black! This is a prime example of why don’t fight ignorance at work as much as I used to. P’s head is so far up her ass, I’m surprised she hasn’t disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/2 "2004-04-30T20:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > If racisim and discriminaton is everywhere, how’d a black man become a general in the United States Army? Don’t forget Secretary of State. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/3 "2004-04-30T20:41:36Z")
But it’s true! There is blatent racism in, say, English education. In of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/4 "2004-04-30T20:50:02Z")
No, no . . . _Elvis_ is Everywhere! _Elvis is everywhere Elvis is everything Elvis is everybody Elvis is still the king_ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/5 "2004-04-30T21:00:41Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Don’t forget Secretary of State. As a matter of fact, I couldn’t even remember the man’s name. 🙂 Four-Star General and Secretary of State (and potential first black President if he hadn’t refused to run) Colin L. Powell, not that it really matters in regards to my discussion with P at this point. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/6 "2004-04-30T21:04:34Z")
> [@](#): > > IT EXISTS EVERYWHERE… YOU HAVE KNOW IDEA IN LESS YOU HAVE WALKED IN OUR SHOES IN OF DISCUSSION… HAVE A NICE DAY! And suddenly the skies were filled with sound of educated black people weeping… ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/7 "2004-04-30T21:09:26Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Elvis is still the king\* \*You can hear the Grand Ol’ Opry in Nashville Tennessee It’s the home of Country Music on that we all agree But when you cross that old Red River, hoss, that just don’t mean a thing Once you’re down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king - - Waylon Jennings. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/8 "2004-04-30T21:16:06Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Don’t forget Secretary of State. and the national security advisor. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/9 "2004-04-30T21:22:53Z")
> [@](#): > > From: D > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:10 PM > To: Olsen, Jeff > Subject: RE: Informational Tom Joyner > PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME ANY MORE E-MAILS At first, I thought it was P wanting to get the last word in. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/10 "2004-04-30T21:44:20Z")
So I finally got around to reading the link. This quote was intriguing: > [@](#): > > In 1998, Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner, host of the syndicated Tom Joyner Morning Show, discovered a Katz Media Group corporate memo that instructed sales staff not to do business on black radio. A year later they organized a massive listener movement against CompUSA for not advertising in black markets. Both companies eventually agreed to improve their black outreach. It was at about this time that this chain letter originated. Why? Why organize a movement against a company that doesn’t want my black–and rather nice, I might add–ass in their store? I’d rather be made aware of such companies, assuming the above is true and I’m not saying it is, than persuade them to improve their black outreach, whatever the fuck that means. Not all blacks are poor and those of us that aren’t, hopefully, are smart enough to vote with our dollars. You don’t want my money? No biggie, I can and will spend elsewhere. Does anyone have the skinny on Non Urban Dictates? Do they really exist? Is that list credible, even if it is six years old? Should I start a thread in GQ? Have I asked enough questions? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/11 "2004-04-30T23:18:53Z")
You beat me to it Juanita. Whilst looking at the original link, I found myself screaming “LINK, DAMNIT” at my computer, to the befuddled wonderment of my co-workers. If that list is true, which I cannot imagine it is (life savers?) it’s a sad state of affairs for the companies involved, however it makes some sense that Builders Square got it’s ass handed to it by Home Depot round about the time this list came out. Devils Advocate: If black people don’t traditionally purchase your product or use your service, why would you be forced to a have an “outreach” program? Just like the makers of [Johnson Products](http://www.johnsonproducts.com/) ( a FINE Chicago company, by the by) wouldn’t need to “reach out” to my decently proportioned white ass, as I generally have no use for their products. Now if they just didn’t WANT Black customers, they ought to have the balls to put that shit on the front door so that those of us who chose to never ever darken the door of the establishment because of their outlandish bigotry would be properly informed. (I already despise Starbucks, so at least THAT is no stretch) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/12 "2004-04-30T23:20:56Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > No, no . . . _Elvis_ is Everywhere! > > _Elvis is everywhere > Elvis is everything > Elvis is everybody > Elvis is still the king_ It’s not evolution! It’s Elvis-lution!! What the hell song is that? I have no idea how that quote got into my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/13 "2004-04-30T23:55:16Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It’s not evolution! It’s Elvis-lution!! > > What the hell song is that? I have no idea how that quote got into my brain. “Elvis is Everywhere” by Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/14 "2004-05-01T00:00:49Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > Why organize a movement against a company that doesn’t want my black–and rather nice, I might add–ass in their store? I guess the point was “Hey, CompUSA/Starbucks/etc., I’ve been buying crap from you for five years, and I’m black. Consider me as part of your demographic or my Black Dollars will go elsewhere.” Of course, if none of your money went to the corp. to begin with, you could continue to ignore them. Much better to look for the organizations that cater to whatever **you** are (e.g. Subaru markets to gays and lesbians; what do I drive?) and to give them your hard earned dough. > [@](#): > > Does anyone have the skinny on Non Urban Dictates? Do they really exist? Is that list credible, even if it is six years old? Should I start a thread in GQ? Have I asked enough questions? No idea. My google search turned up a proliferation of copies of the original (6yo?) e-mail, but no contemporary info, other than [a page from the Urban Institute](http://www.urban.org/content/About/NUDs/nuds.htm) insisting that they have nothing to do with the e-mail: > [@Urban Institute](#): > > The Urban Institute, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research and educational organization, has been incorrectly cited in circulating e-mail and fax lists of companies with “non urban dictates,” or N.U.D.s (NUDs). **\** > As a response to numerous phone inquiries, the Urban Institute has dedicated a special phone line to explain the issue at (202) 261-5779. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/15 "2004-05-01T00:04:30Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > “Elvis is Everywhere” [the world has hope ‘cause he’s feelin’ good escaped the city, lives in the woods](http://www.danielamos.com/swirly/outdoorelvis/outdoorelvis.html) ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/16 "2004-05-01T00:07:24Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > “Elvis is Everywhere” by Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper “Michael J. Fox has got no Elvis in him.” ---
**Author:** ![jastu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@jastu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jastu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/17 "2004-05-01T00:29:05Z")
Doesn’t a company have the right in advertising to target any demographic or racial group they choose? Why is this racist? I am not American but I’m sure there are plenty of companies out there targeting the black or _urban_ market. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/18 "2004-05-01T00:42:15Z")
Back to the OP’s “cow-worker.” Maybe he overstated his opinion. But are you saying there is NO racism in the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/19 "2004-05-01T02:19:35Z")
Yes. Yes, that’s exactly what the OP is saying, that there is no racism anywhere in America. Oh wait, he didn’t say anything even remotely like it ever. Idjit. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896/20 "2004-05-01T03:02:32Z")
Uh, once again I think we are mixing up discrimination against a race with discrimination against a class. I find it extremely difficult to believe that any of the companies on that list have no interest in advertising to any market likely to buy from them. I find it extremely _easy_ to believe that they might have decided against advertising to a heavily urban market on the assumption (however valid or not) that the majority of listeners in such a market lack either the money or the interest in buying their products. I don’t think corporate America (or corporate anywhere else, for that matter) gives a shit about the skin color or ethnic origin of their customers. They care about the color of their money. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not claiming that there is _no_ racism in the US. That would be stupid; of course there is (in both directions, I might add, but obviously persons of color have had the worst of it because of history). But time and again I hear or read of such and such a study showing discrimination against (especially Black) persons of color, and I wonder - are they comparing against Caucasians of roughly equal socio-economic level? This holds particularly true when the study looks at something in which earnings are relevant - lending practices, advertising policies, and so forth. Companies certainly discriminate there, but it’s not against skin color or heritage; it’s against poverty. And thanks to history, a disproportionate number of persons of color in this nation are poor. Although I live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood in a poor northeastern industrial city (with a _large_ Black population), I, a white woman, don’t see much that strikes me as racist. Granted, since I’m not a target of such, there is stuff I’m going to miss. But what I _do_ see, although I’m also not a target of it, is classism - discrimination not only on the basis of income, but of educational level. I have a friend, a white woman in her early thirties, who barely completed the 8th grade. Her mother was a drunk, her father deserted the family, and she grew up mostly on the streets. Her history and her situation are written in her appearance, speech, and mannerisms; she is profoundly ignorant, although not stupid, she is already missing many teeth, her grammar and vocabulary sideswipe poor on the way to atrocious, she is just barely literate, she is overweight and dresses/presents herself in a way that just shouts “Trailer Trash” to the world. She is a good person, works hard, is responsible to the best of her financial ability, and in general is an admirable person in many ways. But if she speaks sharply to her child and swats her lightly on the rear in a doctor’s office, she is threatened with being turned in so that her children will be taken away (she’d cut off her right arm for them). She is owed over a year’s child support and almost as much Social Security from her ex-husband and his disability; she can’t get the courts to act with any despatch. In general, she is either ignored or outright mistreated in most of her public interactions, in ways that I have trouble imagining. Such things never happen to me; they never will. Why? Not because I’m rich, that’s for sure! (Largely because I’m not, although by my friend’s standards I am, at a little under $75K a year). I am treated with respect by the world at large because everything in my appearance, and especially speech, indicate that I am well-educated and solidly middle class. These days, I don’t think we’re nearly so much a racist society as we are a classist society. And it’s not getting better; it’s getting worse. I think that as a society we would be far better served by an Affirmative Action type set of programs that were aimed at class (i.e. income and educational levels) than we are by any program that targets any particular race or ethnic group. For one thing, race/ethnic group based programs have certain rebound effects, the worst one being the possibility of people assuming that any member of a recipient group has succeeded on the basis of such programs rather than merit. For another, the poor and poorly educated white folks in this country have as desperate a need for such aid as their cohorts of color. We’ve reached a point where racism is no longer socially acceptable. That doesn’t mean that it no longer exists, but it _does_ mean that racism is no longer institutionalized or condoned either legally or socially (in most situations and areas - you can always find individual exceptions). To me, that means that legally we’ve done about as much as we can effectively do about racism. It’s time to focus on the poor and poorly educated, regardless of their race or ethnicity. JMHO. BTW, I am a hard-core Democrat and liberal, so please don’t jump down my throat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cow-orker-declares-racisim-discrimination-is-everywhere/242896.md?page=2)