One thing that I’ve learned in discussing racism with black people is that they (for the most part) hate when you use Colin Powell as an example of reduced racism. I can see both sides of this, but I have to agree that it somewhat diminishes the contextual credibility of the person using him as an example. Name someone else, or Colin Powell wasn’t born in the projects are frequent responses. I respect the hell out of the guy, but I don’t use his name in those situations because it perpetuates the notion that non-blacks can only name one successfull black person.
That said, IMO there are two all too common ways of thinking about the current status of racism in America, those that see it everywhere since they’re looking for it, and those that see none of it since they don’t believe it exists. That’s a pretty general statement, but it seems to apply to a lot of people, especially if the conversation gets heated.
I believe the fact that one can say “trailer trash/white trash/redneck/hillbilly” in most parts of the country without being ostracized, whereas God help you if you say n-----, supports your point. (Nobody should say either.) You can buy “Hillbilly Teeth” from a gumball machine, for cripes sake.
Isn’t CompUSA (one of the supposed NUD companies) the company that featured the adorably chubby “teddy bearish” black man who was all into PC games in one series of their commercials?
Well, one thing. Being “trailer trash” etc (meaning the actions, speech and behaviour which define “trailer trash”, NOT meaning just the circumstances of being poor and living in poor housing), is a choice, being of color is not People are always capable of rising above their raising, the difference is whether they choose to MAKE that choice.
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Can’t remember who said it, but it was another poster here on the Dope quoting their grandma…
(hope I remember it alright).
Anyway, the grandma/grandpa said:
“Ain’t no one so poor that they can’t pick up a broom”. IMHO, the same holds true for a library card etc.
I thought it obvious that I was saying that it’s not everywhere. If it were, all blacks would still be living under Jim Crow. My sister would not have met her (now ex-) husband where they were both working. Our parents would have refused to let them marry. My nephew would never have been born. P’s argument is so full of holes, it could be used as a sieve.
I have trouble with your assertion that “people are always capable of rising above their raising.” It would be great if that were true, but in my experience people act out of habit and conformity in most areas of their behavior. It’s all right to hate ignorance, but it’s not all right to hate ignorant people. We’re all ignorant of some things, and it would be a tough world to live in if everyone who knew better than we reacted with name-calling instead of compassion. The “trash” terms are the ones that really bug me - it implies that people are worthless. We should be glad that human beings are generally not trash, except for the occasional Hitler and child-molester.
Besides, “trailer trash” and related terms are frequently used based on the barest acquaintance. Often an upcountry accent and an apparent lack of material success are enough to make the “sophisticates” among us feel a need to assert their “superiority” by name-calling. Then it’s no different from calling someone a nigger.
Right, people act. They have a choice. They can continue to act that way, or not. I didn’t say it was easy to change one’s existance. But it IS possible. Whether or not the person takes the action is STILL a choice, meaning, that person IS capable of "rising above his/her raising. Period.
The rants and arguments against the term “trailer trash” and similar terms has raged long and hard, in this forum, in other internet forums and out in real life. To state a disagreement with a lifestyle which a person does have control over, and to give that basic lifestyle a name, whether it’s "those dumb people who live like pigs, refuse to work for a living, drink, drug, smoke, who talk in such a way as to make a marine blush, and so on and so on and so on (describing that type of person} is quite unwieldy.
It’s normal, and not “hating” to shorten and simplify a description. Is it harsh? Yeah. So is telling someone to straighten up and fly right. IMHO to describe a person who behaves in a certain way, with aspects of their behaving in that way isn’t “hating”.
IF the term is used to describe someone who is merely less well off and not as learned as someone, then yes. I’d have to agree. However, most people (of COURSE not all!!!), when using that term, are meaning the Jerry Springerites of the world. The greentoothed “i’se sleepin’ with my sister AND my brother, and NO one’s gonna stop me, now let me pound on steve” types.
Which reminds me of a slight hijack. I’m beginning to see RED when I hear the retort “hater”. Usually it’s given as some lame copout when one person disagrees with another’s opinion. Or expects something of a person, like that they fulfill normal societal responsibilities.
Example:
A mom on some daytime talk show: Julie, you can’t just live off of me and let me support you, you’re over 18, you need to either go to college, get a job, or pay rent.
I’ve been thinking about this and both statements sound like they come from someone rationalizing their belief. I have a feeling that if you said Herman Cain, Kenneth Chenault, or Richard Parsons, the standard response would be “Who?”.
You’re right, most people would. I have to admit that I only know Ken Chenault, and I probably wouldn’t if he weren’t at the top of my corporate food chain. I assume the other two have accomplishments just as impressive as rising to become CEO of American Express – I’ll have to Google them in a bit.
Racism still exists. So does discrimination. They always will as long as humans inhabit this orb we call Earth. Clearly, it’s not everywhere as your co-workers (sorry, cow-orkers so fucking annoying) maintain.
I agree, that’s why I only use it when referring to someone who I find annoying.
BTW: I only know for certain that P thinks this way, everyone else has been mum on that subject. Thing about this place is everyone tends to forward every single glurge/chain letter/rumor they find in their inbox. I’ve tried directing people to Snopes and met with hardly any success. I did get one supervisor to ask me before she forwards anything, that’s one of about four dozen. Four others (including P) became angry at me for using Snopes to debunk this crap over the years. Two (including D) are pretty much indifferent. It’s just not worth the trouble. The ignorance here is so thick that I’d need reinforcements.
This is the most annoying thing - when I first went to uni it was the first time most of my friends had ever had email (myself included) so naturally there was a veritable orgy of glurge forwarded by certain people (myself not included). I didn’t expect to get insulted for proving that cancer girl (remember her?) didn’t exist, though. You’d have thought people would be happy, but oh, no…
Yes, P’s argument is may be full of holes. I, like you, do not believe racism is EVERYWHERE. And, of course, not all white people are racist.
But I’m kind of amused by white people when they are confronted by the beliefs of your coworker. Instead of asking the person what their experiences have been, and why they feel that way, whites are ready to shout from the roof top how many blacks work for certain company, and Colin Powell is black, and Halley Barry won an Oscar, and I like black people, so there can’t be any more racism in the US. We never really try to understand why some people of color still belive racism exsists.
Maybe we should give them a chance to explain what they mean by comments such as “racism is everywhere,” instead of trying to convince them that they have no reason to feel the way they do.
Condi Rice, Larry Elder, Kofi Annan, Oprah Winfrey, Russel Simmons, Nelson Mandela.
All VERY well respected and successful people.
Not to mention a huge over-representation in the entertainment industry of a country to whom entertainment is incredibly important.
And by the way,
-From http://www.state.gov/secretary/c204.htm
He was also born to poor immigrant parents so I don’t know where you’re getting this “Colin Powell wasn’t born in the projects.”
Cisco, maybe they mean he wasn’t born in Cabrini Green. Or he wasn’t ever a drug user/dealer. Or he wasn’t ever a pimp.
Or they just have no idea what they’re talking about and assume the only way a black can rise to real power in this country is if he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
