# Cowboys trade for the other Roy Williams. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 14, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971 "2008-10-14T23:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/21 "2008-10-15T05:20:54Z")
The LIons never adopted a personality. They got Martz and went wild passing . Then they changed their minds and decided to feature a running game. So we run a lot more. Unfortunately that requires blocking. We are near the bottom of the NFL in running. Years ago when Wayne Fontz was coach we had a very good offense and scored a ton of points. During the off season ,he decided we were scoring too fast and we were wearing the defense down. So he decided to remake the offense into a slower scoring unit. I am not kidding. He fucked up the part that was working to help the defense which stunk. It was a disaster. We have never been a team with a personality. We change coaches and philosophies every 3 years. Players never know what to expect next season. As soon as they can ,good players free agent themselves out of town. Some players have memorized a half a dozen play books. Some are not smart enough to and make mistakes endlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/22 "2008-10-15T05:29:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > This is radiantly bizarre. Who cares what someone believes or how publicly they make it? What, do you get Christian cooties through the TV? > > Who makes an NFL thread into a religion thread? Get a grip. You honestly don’t think a players public persona has an impact on the fans rooting interest? Kitna is just one different shade of TO and Pacman, all have off-the-field dynamics that color our perception of them. Considering that rooting for a team is pretty much a visceral, emotional and subjective experience things like this are completely relevant. The GM and Coaches can afford to ignore this stuff since on-the-field performance is about all that matters. Fans are different, it’s all about the joy you get from watching and I take very little joy from watching someone like Kitna or TO. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/23 "2008-10-15T07:29:15Z")
The Eagles went to a Super Bowl the one time they had an All Pro caliber WR with McNabb. Why don’t they seem to think this is an important position for this team? What are they fucking waiting for? This team has another year or two left on it tops before needing to rebuild, and they are wasting it having McNabb throw to Hank Baskett and Reggie Brown. They got an extra 1st rounder in this last draft from Carolina, do they really think they’ll get a better player than Williams with that pick? I hate that Philadelphia seems incapable of making moves to improve this team while the window is still open, and to let Dallas get him! For shame… ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/24 "2008-10-15T10:59:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > AAAAAHAAAH I can not wait for another rebuilding. You know the coach is gone. Kitnas out for the year . This is ugly and it will get uglier. Kitna is not the answer. He actually is not a bad QB. But ,he is 35 and we need to build for a future??? How can I say that again. help > Williams is tall ,fast and good. He will do well with any team that has talent. He is supposed to be moody ,but who in Detroit isn’t? The Lions have never been through a rebuilding. They’ve always tried to draft the _one player_ that could turn the team around: Joey Harrington, Roy Williams, Charles Rogers, Calvin Johnson. Any one of those years they would’ve been better served trading the pick for multiples and going after some defense or blocking. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/25 "2008-10-15T12:56:05Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > I hate that Philadelphia seems incapable of making moves to improve this team while the window is still open… Up front, I’m an Eagles hater of the highest caliber. But the moves – or, more accurately, the non-moves – that Andy Reid/Jeff Lurie make or don’t make is almost comical. It’s like they flat-out refuse to believe their roster is anything but perfect, and bringing in new players would just destroy the amazing Feng Shui of their locker room. Did Reid get majorly burned in some trade all those years ago when he was with Green Bay? Does Lurie just refuse to open up his wallet a crack? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/26 "2008-10-15T13:14:44Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > This is radiantly bizarre. Who cares what someone believes or how publicly they make it? What, do you get Christian cooties through the TV? > > Who makes an NFL thread into a religion thread? Get a grip. Who makes an NFL game into a sermon? I’m not going to [del]change my[/del] find faith because of Jon Kitna anymore than I’m going to do so because of a doorstep visit by a brace of Mormons. I don’t want to be witnessed to. I don’t care if it is a Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/27 "2008-10-15T13:18:46Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > This is radiantly bizarre. Who cares what someone believes or how publicly they make it? What, do you get Christian cooties through the TV? > > Who makes an NFL thread into a religion thread? Get a grip. I generally don’t care much, but Kitna just gets on my nerves, especially when he gets all preachy about his religion both on and off the field. It would be more tolerable if he didn’t fucking suck as a player, too. And, did you not see that I was responding to **gonzomax’s** post about this prior to you levelling an accusation at me that I’m “Making an NFL thread into a religion thread?” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/28 "2008-10-15T13:27:28Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I generally don’t care much, but Kitna just gets on my nerves, especially when he gets all preachy about his religion both on and off the field. It would be more tolerable if he didn’t fucking suck as a player, too. He gave your franchise its first non-losing seasons in, what… 20 years? He doesn’t suck. He’s just not very good. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/29 "2008-10-15T13:28:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who makes an NFL game into a sermon? > > I’m not going to [del]change my[/del] find faith because of Jon Kitna anymore than I’m going to do so because of a doorstep visit by a brace of Mormons. > > I don’t want to be witnessed to. I don’t care if it is a Sunday. Preface: My exposure to the Lions is: A) Games they play against the NFC East, and B) Thanksgiving Day. I pay fairly close attention to just about anything newsworthy in the NFL, so naturally I don’t hear much about the Lions. 😉 With all of this in mind, where is the sermon coming from? He’s not calling out bible verses in the cadence, is he? He’s not genuflecting when going for the kneel-down, right? (I know, moot point – they don’t get to the point where they need to kneel down) My question is, does Kitna do anything on the field\* to call attention to his faith, or he a post-game preacher in interviews? \*other than the two obvious ones – pointing skyward after a good play, and leading the post-game prayer huddle at midfield. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/30 "2008-10-15T13:38:35Z")
First I think that is good Value for Williams. He is a good player, but was clearly on the verge of a break down/freak out with the Lions. It’s good for all three involved parties, and saves them all a bunch of issues. Second I think the bigger issue is the stock of draft picks. They are setting up to lure a big time coach to an ugly situation. The Lions are like that dirty little place on the corner that seems to be cursed, every 4 months it switches to a donut shop, then a chinese restauraunt, then a head shop etc. and always goes broke. The coaches they will need to commit to real rebuilding are scared, with good reason. But if they can stock good picks they are much more attractive in the sence of “come here now, you can build _your_ team, nobody will expect much the first two years”. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/31 "2008-10-15T13:57:59Z")
I don’t get this. With receiver Williams we add to a strength while we’re already suffering mightly from the loss of Terrence Newman, safety Roy Williams and, now, Adam Jones. We’ve got relatively inexperienced Scandrick, Jenkins and Ball, '07 and '08 picks, now to plug the DB holes but instead of trading for a veteran corner we get someone who calls for the ball just as much as TO. This leaves a gaping hole in the secondary and provides no fix for a struggling OL. Ugh. In addition to the two draft pics (what, a 4th and 6th?) we gave for Pacman we now also give up the 1st, 3rd and 6th. I despise Jerry Jones and think he’s leveraged too much in yet another gamble but will grudgingly admit he does somehow seem to have things for out successfully more than half the time. I’m trying to get excited but can’t help but think hey, why not here, here and here? ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/32 "2008-10-15T14:11:53Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Maybe the next GM will do something good with it. I hear they are looking to draft a wide receiver in the first round 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/33 "2008-10-15T14:14:01Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I don’t get this. With receiver Williams we add to a strength while we’re already suffering mightly from the loss of Terrence Newman, safety Roy Williams and, now, Adam Jones. We’ve got relatively inexperienced Scandrick, Jenkins and Ball, '07 and '08 picks, now to plug the DB holes but instead of trading for a veteran corner we get someone who calls for the ball just as much as TO. This leaves a gaping hole in the secondary and provides no fix for a struggling OL. Ugh. > > In addition to the two draft pics (what, a 4th and 6th?) we gave for Pacman we now also give up the 1st, 3rd and 6th. I despise Jerry Jones and think he’s leveraged too much in yet another gamble but will grudgingly admit he does somehow seem to have things for out successfully more than half the time. I’m trying to get excited but can’t help but think hey, why not here, here and here? The wide receiver corps is not a strength of the team. Sure, T.O. is really, really good, but Crayton is absolutely not a #2 guy, and Miles Austin and Sam Hurd show up about once per season (each). Having Witten disguises the top-to-bottom weakness, somewhat. The offensive line is struggling, but isn’t bad. They’re underachieving; they don’t need to be beefed up, they need to be coached up. Starting a rookie wideout is not that big a deal. The Giants did it last year (with Aaron Ross), and it seems to have worked out pretty well for them. Jenkins is a very, very polished player- not a supreme athlete, but a guy who can start tomorrow. Anyway, Pacman was kind of a liability in coverage. Hell, he sucked for the Titans at everything except returns. Ideally, you want to have three top-tier targets, and Williams gives you that. Plus, the team is built to win right now. T.O. is 35 (36?), and Marion Barber is not going to last too long with his style. Williams gives the team hope to remain an offensive juggernaut when TO loses a step- he’ll be a top-ten talent, in his prime, for the next five years. Drafting a wideout won’t give you that for at least two seasons, and even then chances are 50/50 that hypothetical wideout X will pan out. I’m pretty sure you only gave up a 4th-rounder for Pacman, and you get a 5th-rounder back now that he’s been suspended (or so says Chris Mortenson). ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/34 "2008-10-15T14:40:54Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > I hear they are looking to draft a wide receiver in the first round 😃 If there’s one there that worth the (possible) number one pick overall, then go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/35 "2008-10-15T14:47:24Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > If there’s one there that worth the (possible) number one pick overall, then go for it. If the lack of production from the four you’ve gotten so far should have told you anything, it’s that you can put Reggie Wayne, T.O. and Randy Moss in the same offense and they won’t do squat unless you’ve got a decent offensive line and a decent quarterback. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/36 "2008-10-15T15:05:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the lack of production from the four you’ve gotten so far should have told you anything, it’s that you can put Reggie Wayne, T.O. and Randy Moss in the same offense and they won’t do squat unless you’ve got a decent offensive line and a decent quarterback. Again, if there’s a person that’s first overall and if we can’t trade the pick, we take that “can’t miss” prospect. I’m on record for saying that I want a top-shelf tackle prospect. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/37 "2008-10-15T15:09:34Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Again, if there’s a person that’s first overall and if we can’t trade the pick, we take that “can’t miss” prospect. I’m on record for saying that I want a top-shelf tackle prospect. Bah. No such thing. That said, I anxiously await the Buccaneers’ announcement that they’ve traded with the Rams for their first-rounder to select Michael Crabtree. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/38 "2008-10-15T15:52:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Bah. No such thing. > > That said, I anxiously await the Buccaneers’ announcement that they’ve traded with the Rams for their first-rounder to select Michael Crabtree. No such thing as a stud tackle? Baroo? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/39 "2008-10-15T16:00:44Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > No such thing as a stud tackle? Baroo? No such thing as a “can’t miss” wideout. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971/40 "2008-10-15T16:13:53Z")
Williams proved himself for 5 years. He was at the end of his contract and was not likely to resign in Detroit. We would have gotten nothing if he walked. So it is a good deal for Detroit. PS. Kitna says he was healthy and ready to play last week. He was put on IR to get him out of the way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cowboys-trade-for-the-other-roy-williams/467971.md?page=3)