# Cows & Leather **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122 "2013-10-24T15:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/1 "2013-10-24T15:34:12Z")
Inspired by my new leather coat… Where does leather come from? Are all cows good sources of leather or only specific breeds? Also, what happens to dairy cows when they’re retired from milk making? Is the beef eaten by humans? Dogs? Are they useful for leather? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/2 "2013-10-24T15:39:08Z")
Any breed of cow is good for leather, as are other related animals (I sell water buffalo leather bags at my store). The age, gender, and breed of the animal determines the use for the leather. The soft, supple leather in your coat most likely came from smaller, younger cattle. The thick, strong hide in my belt from a larger, older, tougher critter. Generally, by the time a dairy cow is retired, she’s pretty old and the resultant beef wouldn’t be tender enough for steaks. The dairy breeds also haven’t been developed for good-tasting beef, so even if some is turned into hamburger it wouldn’t sell for much compared to young Angus. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/3 "2013-10-24T19:03:54Z")
I could see selling retired dairy cattle to pet food people. Those classic leather flight jackets are made from goatskin. Calfskin is popular for gloves, wallets, and the like. There are those fleece lined sheepskin coats also. There’s probably more also. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/4 "2013-10-24T19:05:53Z")
Much hamburger does partially come from “retired” dairy cows. Cecil did a column on this once, and included this quote from a McDonalds spokesperson, calling it “leaner cuts form dairy cattle” rather than “dried out old milk cows”, of course: > [@](#): > > "McDonald’s hamburgers are 100 percent pure domestic beef without fillers or seasonings. To maintain our customers’ expectations and preference for lean, flavorful hamburgers, we carefully select fine cuts of grain fed beef and leaner cuts from dairy cattle. This is a typical combination for quality ground beef. More importantly, we have found that this combination results in a flavorful hamburger that also has a significantly lower percentage of fat (20 percent) than the government limits (30 percent). Most veal sold in the US is from dairy breed bull calves. From growing up around dairy farmers, I can tell you that they wind up with a large surplus of bull calves to get rid of, and continually grouse about how many bull calves are getting dropped by their cows. What some people who weren’t really farmers but had a bit of land to raise an animal on would sometimes do is buy a bull calf from a dairy farmer and raise it as a steer to obtain some cheap beef for their own use. The dairy farmer would probably castrate the calf for you, since they were more than happy to get rid of one. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/5 "2013-10-24T19:18:34Z")
According to an old engineering book I have the best leather to make drive belts for machines come from the back of oxen. It even has a picture to show where to cut the leather. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/6 "2013-10-24T19:33:34Z")
An ox in an engineering book? “First assume a spherical cow…” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/7 "2013-10-24T19:39:16Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > An ox in an engineering book? > > “First assume a spherical cow…” That might be more like a physics book. In this one they’d probably start by talking about the size of your waterwheel. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/8 "2013-10-24T19:46:50Z")
There’s also the old pigskin. I had a pair of pigskin gloves once and they were the toughest damn gloves that a pig ever wore. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/9 "2013-10-24T20:01:02Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Those classic leather flight jackets are made from goatskin. Actually the classic vintage ones and the really expensive new ones are made from horse hide. I can’t believe I beat **Johnny L.A.** to this one. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/10 "2013-10-24T20:56:19Z")
I remember one factoid from when we were buying a leather sofa. When cattle are raised in rough, craggy terrain, i.e., full of rocks and tough brambles, they’re likely to have a scarred and damaged hide. Leather furniture makers want entire unscarred hides and so make arrangements with specific farmers who raise cattle on hazard-free land. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/11 "2013-10-24T21:10:04Z")
Heh. Tough, scarred Battle Cows! ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/12 "2013-10-24T21:19:13Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > I remember one factoid from when we were buying a leather sofa. > > When cattle are raised in rough, craggy terrain, i.e., full of rocks and tough brambles, they’re likely to have a scarred and damaged hide. Leather furniture makers want entire unscarred hides and so make arrangements with specific farmers who raise cattle on hazard-free land. There are farmers who own rough, craggy terrain full of rocks who decide to raise cattle? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/13 "2013-10-24T21:30:12Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Actually the classic vintage ones and the really expensive new ones are made from horse hide. > > I can’t believe I beat **Johnny L.A.** to this one. Baseballs used to be made of horse hide, and are still known as “the ol’ horsehide.” However, due to dwindling supplies, they’ve been made of cow hide for the last 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/14 "2013-10-24T21:31:49Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > Heh. Tough, scarred Battle Cows! Reminds me of a comedian I saw many years ago, who noted that leather jackets tend to project a macho image of the wearer, but cows aren’t exactly known for being fierce, fearsome creatures\*. You can just walk into the meadow with a gun, and they won’t care at all. “Bang! You’re a coat! Bang! You’re a belt!” - - Yes, I know that cattle can actually be pretty ornery and dangerous, but it was still a funny bit. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/15 "2013-10-24T21:45:20Z")
I’ve heard it said that European leather is prized because they don’t use barbed wire so the leather is free from scratches, but I can’t find a cite for it. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/16 "2013-10-24T22:15:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Reminds me of a comedian I saw many years ago, who noted that leather jackets tend to project a macho image of the wearer, but cows aren’t exactly known for being fierce, fearsome creatures\*. You can just walk into the meadow with a gun, and they won’t care at all. “Bang! You’re a coat! Bang! You’re a belt!” > > - > - Yes, I know that cattle can actually be pretty ornery and dangerous, but it was still a funny bit. Compared to plants and chemical vats, cows actually are kind of macho. Plus there’s the whole “killing an animal” aspect that appeals to the lingering bits of our hunter-gatherer heritage. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/17 "2013-10-24T22:46:15Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > I’ve heard it said that European leather is prized because they don’t use barbed wire so the leather is free from scratches, but I can’t find a cite for it. There are different areas that do this. One of my BMW catalogs says they get their leather for something or other from farms in Norway or something because they don’t use barbed wire fences. Yesterday, in an [article/interview/q&a](http://rideapart.com/2013/10/leather-bedtime-story/) thing on a motorcycle site, a moto gear company said they get their hides from Brazil for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/18 "2013-10-24T22:55:28Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > There are farmers who own rough, craggy terrain full of rocks who decide to raise cattle? They’re called ranchers. There are a LOT of them here in Montana. > [@cochrane](#): > > Baseballs used to be made of horse hide, and are still known as “the ol’ horsehide.” However, due to dwindling supplies, they’ve been made of cow hide for the last 40 years. One of the toughest pairs of boots I’ve ever had was made of mule hide. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/19 "2013-10-24T23:08:12Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:18, topic:672122”] They’re called ranchers. There are a LOT of them here in Montana. . [/QUOTE] \ Just to add, the ranches that literally cover West Texas are very rocky, covered with thorny plants and other hazards. The reason the ranches are so large in the first place is that they can support far fewer cattle per acre than pasture land that is grassier. Along the PCH in Cali you will see ranches the abut the cliffs above the Pacific. I have not seen any fences, I wonder how many cattle they lose every year to them? **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122/20 "2013-10-25T05:48:11Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > From growing up around dairy farmers, I can tell you that they wind up with a large surplus of bull calves to get rid of, and continually grouse about how many bull calves are getting dropped by their cows. Yes, indeed. Prized semen sold for artificial insemination will often be rated as to the male/female percentage history of that sire. > [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > I’ve heard it said that European leather is prized because they don’t use barbed wire so the leather is free from scratches, but I can’t find a cite for it. On the other end, some western boots & jackets come with a statement that they are ‘made from natural leather, with all of the rugged marks of a lifetime giving authenticity to the leather’ – so making a sales point of the imperfections of the leather. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cows-leather/672122.md?page=2)