# Coyote pack mimicking foxes? Weird or normal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199 "2010-12-23T17:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/1 "2010-12-23T17:34:37Z")
We have 5 acres of alpine meadow dotted with ponderosa pines and bristle cones, there is a local female fox who comes into the yard all the time at 2am and screams her shrieky little scream [see examples [here](http://www.google.com/search?q=fox+call&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=fox+call&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Plp&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=5oYTTZHJPML48AaC8Ii6Dg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQqwQwAA&fp=3546717b9b9556d9)]. The other day I was chopping wood around 6pm - it was dark - and I noticed the dogs [puppy siberian husky\border collie mix and beagle mix] were not around. That was unusual. So I walked down into the lower pasture with my head-lamp blazing the way before me. I rounded the corner and saw what I can only say is something very odd. The Husky\Border mix was standing right next to the fox, sniffing her fur while the other dog was standing 20 feet away just staring dumbfounded at the two. As soon as my head lamp hit the situation the fox took off, and jumped over our 5-ft fence and trotted into the neighbors yard. I walked over to the fence and looked at her, she was standing there looking right back at me…kinda cool, kinda eery, I was wondering is she was tame or what… Fast forward to last night. It was 2am and the Shrieky scream came from the back porch and both dogs took off through the dog door and ran after the fox. I got up to make sure it wasn’t a mountain lion or anything and put my head lamp on and walked onto the porch. And sure enough, there she was in all her red glory, a huge female fox. So I called the dogs back onto the porch and shut the porch gate and went back to bed, that way the dogs could stay on the porch but not bolt into the pasture. Couple minutes later she started shrieking again and it continued for about half an hour. Then it stopped and around an hour later, another shrieky kind of call, but this one was different but very close to the fox. I again got up because now the dogs were barking again, and what I saw when I got out onto the porch was amazing. There in the middle of the pasture was a small female [?] coyote, making this very interesting little scream…just like the fox. Then I shone my light up to the fence and standing there were 6 sets of green eyes staring back at me. In my experience this is a way for coyotes to lure dogs, they send a female to play with a pup then the pack descends and eats the poor dog. But this coyote was making noise, she was mimicking the fox, trying to get our pups off the porch and onto the pasture. I have never seen this before, I love nature with all of it’s oddities, but this was truly amazing to see. For the factual answer, do coyote packs mimic other predators like the red fox? Or do they just sound so similar it’s nearly the same. Also it was not a distress call, she was just standing there calling… ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/2 "2010-12-23T18:02:00Z")
Wow! I have no answer, but that would sure be cool to see! ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/3 "2010-12-23T18:03:40Z")
No idea about the coyotes. But do you think there’s a danger the fox was rabid, if it was just standing there? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/4 "2010-12-23T18:29:56Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No idea about the coyotes. But do you think there’s a danger the fox was rabid, if it was just standing there? Yes and no. I watched this particular female fox have a litter of 4 kits [see [here](http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r156/Phlosphr/DSC_0271.jpg)and [here](http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r156/Phlosphr/DSC_0270.jpg)] over the spring. They have all since left but she sticks around. She is quite habituated to us. It’s just weird behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/5 "2010-12-23T19:52:20Z")
Aww. Yay for the cute fox pictures! ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/6 "2010-12-23T19:56:36Z")
Coyotes do funny things. They’re spooky-intelligent, very adaptable, excellent survivors. Trying to figure them out is like trying to psychoanalyze a cat. I wouldn’t put it past one to mimic a fox, or it might have just been similarities in species behavior. That’s kind of odd behavior for a fox too…wonder if she might have been in heat and looking for a lover. It’s certainly not unheard of for dogs to mate with foxes or coyotes. SS ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/7 "2010-12-24T09:07:09Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > It’s certainly not unheard of for dogs to mate with foxes or coyotes. That’s why the other dog was just standing there dumbfounded. “You live your whole life with someone, you think you _know_ them…” ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/8 "2010-12-24T14:05:18Z")
Maybe the coyotes were trying to lure the foxes? I love dogs but domestication has bred the common sense out of a lot of them. I realized that after my dog got skunked three times in one summer. I mean it’s a skunk for goodness sake, how hard is it to recognize a skunk and leave the thing alone ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/9 "2010-12-24T15:13:36Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > That’s why the other dog was just standing there dumbfounded. “You live your whole life with someone, you think you _know_ them…” Well, factually, the Beagle Mix is not too smart, but knows not to go near a fox…and plus, the Husky\Border mix is a puppy. Only 7-mos - perhaps the fox was a cougar? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/10 "2010-12-24T15:18:33Z")
Yes, they use an Acme fox-imitator, but it often backfires. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/11 "2010-12-24T16:52:05Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Coyotes do funny things. They’re spooky-intelligent, very adaptable, excellent survivors. Trying to figure them out is like trying to psychoanalyze a cat. I wouldn’t put it past one to mimic a fox, or it might have just been similarities in species behavior. That’s kind of odd behavior for a fox too…wonder if she might have been in heat and looking for a lover. It’s certainly not unheard of for dogs to mate with foxes or coyotes. > SS Dogs mate with foxes? Never heard of this, could you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/12 "2010-12-24T17:07:38Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Dogs mate with foxes? > > Never heard of this, could you elaborate? There’s been reports of it happening, but nothing confirmed. There’s a good chance that it’s not possible as foxes and dogs are not members of the same genus.It’d be a bit like a human mating with another ape. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/13 "2010-12-24T17:30:23Z")
They might mate but not produce offspring. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/14 "2010-12-24T18:11:00Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > They might mate but not produce offspring. Having read that abortion/child support thread, I envy them. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/15 "2010-12-24T19:05:20Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Dogs mate with foxes? > > Never heard of this, could you elaborate? from Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Dog-fox hybrids > There are no reliable reports or genetic testing that proves the existence of dog-fox hybrids (called doxes) although there are many unsubstantiated reports of such hybrids. > > An unconfirmed female terrier/fox hybrid was reported, and later euthanized (killed), in the UK. British gamekeeper folklore claims that terrier bitches can produce offspring with male foxes. Other dog breeds claimed to have hybridized with foxes are the Alaskan Malamute, Sheltie, Siberian husky, and most of the hound groups. The supposed hybrids are likely to be natural variation in the domestic dog. > > There has been a reported cross between a domestic dog and a South American Maned Wolf, but the Maned Wolf is only a fox like canid not closely related to other canids and is the only member of the genus Chrysocyon.[citation needed] > > In Saskatchewan, Canada there was another supposed dox, this time a female miniature Sheltie with a wild fox. There was a litter of three, but only one survived. The surviving (a female) was barren, and looked like an almost pure fox, with slight variations. However, the variability of dogs in appearance makes it impossible to determine whether an animal is hybrid based on looks. In most reported cases the dox had gold or yellow eyes, wired hair, and with black red and gray hairs covering most of the body Seems to be an open question. I’ve heard ample anecdotal evidence…and as any dog owner knows, some male dogs will hump just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/16 "2010-12-25T10:40:59Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Well, factually, the Beagle Mix is not too smart, but knows not to go near a fox…and plus, the Husky\Border mix is a puppy. Only 7-mos - perhaps the fox was a cougar? :dubious: Heh, I remember those days… just on the cusp of adulthood, and some wild, exotic creature makes herself available. Can’t blame him for wanting a taste. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/17 "2010-12-25T12:29:25Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > I walked over to the fence and looked at her, she was standing there looking right back at me…kinda cool, kinda eery, I was wondering is she was tame or what… This “tame” behavior seems to be characteristic of red foxes, in my experience. Where other animals run away at the sight of man, foxes often ignore them or tolerate their presence. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coyote-pack-mimicking-foxes-weird-or-normal/565199/18 "2010-12-25T13:33:29Z")
Coyotes are rumored to kill & eat foxes.