# CPAC National Anthem performance **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 1, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058 "2021-03-01T20:13:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/61 "2021-03-02T19:38:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Ayn Rand goes to such effort to make pasteboard villains to establish the heroism of her protagonists that it is just painful to read and feels like the worst kind of narrative manipulation. I can’t believe people actually read that book repeatedly; I struggled to finish the last half of it, and then immediately threw it in the trash because I didn’t even want to use it as a door stop. [hijack] I read “Atlas Shrugged” as an adult in a “know your enemy” mindset. The writing style was good; the plot was questionable; the actions of the individuals entirely ruined my suspension of disbelief. I’m willing to give a book / movie a chance - I’ll take your base situation, suspend my disbelief (i.e. ignore the absurdities and contradictions in your initial setup), and enjoy the aftermath. This philosophy is necessary for enjoying pretty much any “dystopian future” fiction. Even in the 50s when it was written, railroads were falling out of prominence, especially as a mode of travel. But the actions of the various “titans of industry” were completely out of character - enough so that I could not even fathom the further actions in the book. By the time you get to the end and the new amendment, I was yelling and swearing at the book. Anyone who can actually find anything philosophically cogent in this book is as insane as she was. You’re right - a door stop wasn’t even appropriate. I don’t believe in burning books, but in this case, I’d make an exception. [/hijack - and thank you for bringing up bad memories.] ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/62 "2021-03-02T19:39:01Z")
This performance is hold-my-beer level. I’m not reveling, I could not listen to the end it was so painful. And I can and have sung this, it isn’t really that hard for a decent soprano voice. However, I think we should remember the statue of the ex guy they prayed to, and pass over this poor girl’s humiliation in horrified silence. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/63 "2021-03-02T19:39:22Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I have hope she might recover from both the mocking and the support. There’s always banking… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/64 "2021-03-02T19:43:57Z")
I’m with you. Your sentence sounded perfectly fine to my ears. Why there’s a sidebar about this, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/65 "2021-03-02T20:32:04Z")
It’s dehumanizing. Dismissing a real person as having feelings, making mistakes, and being worthy of compassion is connected in my view. Combined with a more passive constuction, it makes a big difference. Saying you have a “mockable entity” has a very different connotation than saying she deserves mocking, or that you are comfortable mocking the person. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/66 "2021-03-02T20:37:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Most 19-year-olds are idiots. If we committed, for example, to mocking every college freshman who reads half of Atlas Shrugged and suddenly knows how to fix the world, we’d never have time to get anything done. To be fair, if they filled CPAC with 19 year old Rand fans singing badly, it would actually be far less cringeworthy than it actually was. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Rick Perry is a fully-formed adult who has had much experience in government to see how things work or don’t. That he holds not just severely conservative views and elected to serve Trump, but also made efforts to actually dismantle the agency he oversaw is inexcusable. But that’s not the reason that we made fun of him. We made fun of him because he flubbed his performance. We criticized him for his positions, but we laughed at him because he couldn’t remember the 3 govt agencies he wanted to eliminate. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The young lady in the video is a teenager, even if of majority age. I don’t know her background or why she holds her beliefs but I shudder to consider what people would think of me based upon my views at that age (much less my vocal range). Every person in the audience that she signed up to sing for thinks that she is enough of a fully-formed adult to make informed decisions about her education and the debt that she would take on for that education. And that sticks with you, and does far more damage than some people chuckling at you missing some notes. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The performance is awful as is the company she has chosen to keep but I can still express sympathy that a bunch of bigots used her as a stooge to headline their conference, and hope that she recovers from both the embarrassment of her performance (assuming she feels some) and her support for these narfs. She wasn’t kidnapped and forced to perform. She wanted to do this. She knew who it was for, and what it was for, and she approved of it. She wanted to make a name for herself within that exact crowd. As far as the company she chose to keep, if she were amazingly talented, and I enjoyed her work, if I found out that she chose to sing for CPAC, I’d have stopped following her. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Oddly enough for how often it is cited by Randites as their essential bible of conservatism, reading that ‘novel’ (I use the term loosely; it is more of a pseudo-philosophical pamphlet of epic length) was the turning point for me in realizing how bankrupt hardcore conservatism was. I had a friend that recommended and lent it to me back in High School. I knew nothing of the political cult following it had, just thought it was another cheesy sci-fi novel. I was far more interested in the ideas of the new steel and the free energy motor than in the politics behind it all. I thought that that stuff was just almost throwaway garbage as part of the setting. It was only later that I realized that people actually took the social and political philosophy stuff seriously. I re-read it with that in mind, and found it even more implausible than the sci-fi parts. The movies were pretty funny, though. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/67 "2021-03-02T20:45:34Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > Saying you have a “mockable entity” has a very different connotation than saying she deserves mocking, or that you are comfortable mocking the person. Sounds about right. As an entity that was agreed to be contracted to sing for CPAC, it is very mockable, for a number of reasons. As a person, she can grow, and leave that behind. If she starts be distancing herself from the conservatives, that’s a good start. She had created a brand for herself, probably even incorporated _as_ an entity. She delivered that performance _as_ an entity representing her brand. This isn’t mocking someone for making a mistake, it’s not mocking someone for performing badly at a talent show or a volunteer at church or a little league game. This is mocking someone for their delusions of adequacy and _wanting_ the spotlight on them. She chose to do this performance _to be_ noticed, to make a name for herself. And she succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/68 "2021-03-02T20:47:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > She wasn’t kidnapped and forced to perform. She wanted to do this. She knew who it was for, and what it was for, and she approved of it. She wanted to make a name for herself within that exact crowd. Sure, and if you want to ridicule her specifically for her performance, well, it’s a free country. But I won’t join in, not because I have any measure of sympathy for the causes she supports or even because she clearly misjudged her own singing abilities, but just because I don’t enjoy kicking puppies, even stupid and bad-tempered ones. On the other hand, I’d take a free swing at Rick Perry any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And I’ll definitely mock him for this performance: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgT0p_a02ig) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/69 "2021-03-02T20:48:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And that sticks with you, and does far more damage than some people chuckling at you missing some notes. You think having college debt (if she has any) will be a more formative experience for her than that time she was made a national laughingstock by mean liberals? What would your position be on mocking her if she’d sung at an NFL game? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/70 "2021-03-02T20:55:31Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > that time she was made a national laughingstock by mean liberals? Let’s be clear-it’s not the ‘mean liberals’ who made her a laughingstock. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/71 "2021-03-02T20:58:21Z")
I was postulating her point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/72 "2021-03-02T20:59:16Z")
I dunno, man. How old does someone have to be before you can make fun of their terrible decisions? I’m pretty comfortable with “18.” If it were a bunch of 14-year-olds up there, I’d back way off on the pointing and laughing. But if you’re old enough to vote, to join the Army, or to be tried as an adult, you’re old enough for me to make fun of your bad choices. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/73 "2021-03-02T21:04:49Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Sure, and if you want to ridicule her specifically for her performance, well, it’s a free country. Actually, I don’t want to, and I haven’t. My ridicule has actually been entirely about this being a continuation of Conservatives hiring people who are not qualified for the job they are hired to do. I criticize her for taking on a job she should have known she was not up for, and for doing so for reprehensible people. As far as her actual singing, she probably did better than I would have, but I go out of my way to make sure that no one ever has to hear me sing. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But I won’t join in, not because I have any measure of sympathy for the causes she supports or even because she clearly misjudged her own singing abilities, but just because I don’t enjoy kicking puppies, even stupid and bad-tempered ones. I don’t believe in kicking puppies either, but I _do_ believe in training them to shit and piss outside, and not on my carpet. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > On the other hand, I’d take a free swing at Rick Perry any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And I’ll definitely mock him for this performance: Are you mocking him for his performance because he’s a bad dancer, or are you mocking him for his performance because he’s a reprehensible excuse for a human being, _and_ a bad dancer? Seems the entire point of all those reality shows is to mock those who want to be in the spotlight, but have poor talent, one of many reasons I don’t watch them. > [@eschrodinger](#): > > You think having college debt (if she has any) will be a more formative experience for her than that time she was made a national laughingstock by mean liberals? Yes. Actually. If she came out, and said that it was a mistake to work with CPAC, then all those “mean liberals” would suddenly rush to her side. But she’d still have student loan debt. > [@eschrodinger](#): > > What would your position be on mocking her if she’d sung at an NFL game? About the same. I’d criticize those her hired her without determining if she was capable of doing the job, and I’d criticize her for wanting to be in the spotlight, even though she was not qualified. That’s the part that I keep getting stuck on here. She _wanted_ this. She wanted to be noticed, she wanted the spotlight on herself. She wanted people to know her name. And now that she has succeeded, she’s all upset at the monkey paw that granted her wish. If she’d been spectacular, and had been the best rendition you had ever heard of our national anthem, would you be telling people that they shouldn’t be giving her complements? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/74 "2021-03-02T21:05:18Z")
FWIW, my incredulity in the OP is pretty much directed at the CPAC organizers that hired a singer clearly out of her league and, for whatever reason, had her sing a capella instead of providing her with a backing track to help her stay on pitch and disguise her errors. I’m sure they could have gone to a top tier music school and found an excellent singer who would have nailed it. My school had plenty of them, and I’m sure more than a few would sing at a Republican event proudly. I just don’t get the poor planning. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/75 "2021-03-02T21:05:54Z")
You can make fun of whomever you want for whatever you want. There is no age limit. But people may judge you for it. When someone is held up by thousands on social media as a national laughingstock, I think that can be very ugly, and I’d like to see the person deserve it more than this. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/76 "2021-03-02T21:07:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Are you mocking him for his performance because he’s a bad dancer, or are you mocking him for his performance because he’s a reprehensible excuse for a human being, _and_ a bad dancer? The answer to all questions is “yes”. > [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m sure they could have gone to a top tier music school and found an excellent singer who would have nailed it. My school had plenty of them, and I’m sure more than a few would sing at a Republican event proudly. I just don’t get the poor planning. It’s their metiér. “Stupid is as stupid does.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/77 "2021-03-02T21:07:48Z")
Freedom of speech and association does include the freedom to be part of an online mob of bullies. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/78 "2021-03-02T21:09:52Z")
I agree with this entirely, and my own mocking was directed at conservative type “reasoning,” and defensiveness, not at her performance directly. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/79 "2021-03-02T21:11:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I just don’t get the poor planning. They trotted out a gold statue of the guy who lost the last election, complete with American Flag boxer shorts, flip flops, and a pretty princess magic wand. A guy who promoted a major event from a landscaping parking lot. They invited a guy to speak who drove off a Newsmax anchor with his libelous rantings. Good planning would be the surprise. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058/80 "2021-03-02T21:12:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Gyrate](#): > > > > I agree that the responsibility lies with CPAC organizers for hiring her. > > She agreed to a gig to perform for a dangerous white supremacist organization. I’m okay mocking her horrible performance based on that alone; she’s no innocent here. She’s also young, though. As in she’s spent at most less than a year away from her parents. She likely doesn’t even know it’s a white supremacist organization. I didn’t at that age, either. I also just don’t see how participating in her public shaming helps much. She’s at an age where she’s actually reachable, but if all the libs are mocking her, that’s a pretty good way to push her away. While I actually laughed at how bad it was, I do think it’s better to keep the focus on why—it’s how bit a shitshow it was for CPAC. The last thing I want to do is be part of the group that makes yet another teenage girl feel harassed. I mean, unless she’s actually done a bunch of horrible things herself. Then I’m fine with calling her out. But she just had a bad performance in a way that is entirely understandable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-national-anthem-performance/934058.md?page=5)