# CPAC - The fall of Social Conservatism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164 "2011-02-12T21:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/61 "2011-02-14T19:36:57Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > From one of your links, **furt** : > > Pretty much the opposite of the point you’re trying to make. > > I’m sure there is plenty more, but if you can’t be bothered to thoroughly read them, then I can’t either. Read for comprehension: > [@](#): > > It gets more traction in tough economic times, sure. And it’s gotten more traction in the last couple of years because the deficit has gotten bigger, and because some people, for political reasons, were reluctant to point out Bush’s spending. But it’s never been the case that “nobody was complaining.” If your claim was that it was a relatively bigger issue in the 90’s, you should have said that. What you said was “nobody was complaining.” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/62 "2011-02-14T19:38:42Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Certainly not, but I am entitled to call that opinion a fantasy. Except for the states and countries that do in fact balance their budgets. Were the surplus years in the late 90’s a myth? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/63 "2011-02-14T19:39:10Z")
> [@furt](#): > > If your claim was that it was a relatively bigger issue in the 90’s, you should have said that. > > What you said was “nobody was complaining.” Oh yeah, and I meant _nobody_. Not. One. Soul. :rolleyes: I hope it feels good to be “technically” right, which is almost always just another way to say “wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/64 "2011-02-14T19:49:03Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Oh yeah, and I meant _nobody_. Not. One. Soul. > > :rolleyes: > > I hope it feels good to be “technically” right, which is almost always just another way to say “wrong.” Dude, you’re the one who responded to a qualified, balanced statement with sweeping hyperbole, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Heyoka13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Heyoka13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heyoka13)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/65 "2011-02-14T20:05:48Z")
Yoiks!! I was googling and wiki-ing candidates on the list above and jumpin jehosaphat! Who did Santorum PO? Crikey, what do his kids, and relatives think of THAT? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/66 "2011-02-14T20:08:06Z")
> [@Heyoka13](#): > > Yoiks!! > > I was googling and wiki-ing candidates on the list above and jumpin jehosaphat! > > Who did Santorum PO? Sex columnist Dan Savage. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/67 "2011-02-14T20:09:36Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Dude, you’re the one who responded to a qualified, balanced statement with sweeping hyperbole, not me. Pretty sure this started when you misunderstood Rnatb’s point, which you proved by those articles you posted that supported it. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/68 "2011-02-14T20:15:04Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Pretty sure this started when you misunderstood Rnatb’s point, which you proved by those articles you posted that supported it. So my mistake was my qualified, balanced statement to _someone else’s_ hyperbole. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/69 "2011-02-14T20:27:07Z")
Jeb Bush would have a difficult time divorcing himself from his goofy brother and the right wing neocons. It is well deserved. How could he pretend he is different? Huckabee has a hook to a small group and there are doubts that he could gain traction on a national stage. Paul is nuts. Palin is nuts too. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/70 "2011-02-14T20:32:48Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So my mistake was my qualified, balanced statement to _someone else’s_ hyperbole. Got it. I said that I “didn’t hear a peep” about the deficit in the W years. You responded by posting a bunch of articles from the W years that said no one is talking about the deficit. But if you just want to feel like a “winner” here for some reason, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/71 "2011-02-14T21:03:11Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I said that I “didn’t hear a peep” about the deficit in the W years. You responded by posting a bunch of articles from the W years that said no one is talking about the deficit. But if you just want to feel like a “winner” here for some reason, knock yourself out. I said, in post #50, that it got comparatively less traction during the Bush years, but that it wasn’t true that “nobody was complaining.” You took issue with that, so I gave cites of people complaining about the deficit under Bush. Now you’re saying that all you really meant was that it got comparatively less traction during the Bush years. Thanks ever so much for wasting my time. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/72 "2011-02-14T22:09:10Z")
:rolleyes: Say something useful or clam up. When you start selectively quoting yourself you’re just way too close to a parody for comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/73 "2011-02-15T15:14:04Z")
So, there was an opinion piece by Kevin McCullough on [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) yesterday that I just came across. I have no idea whether he’s a prominent voice in Conserva-land, but it seems safe to say that this isn’t a unique view – [Disrespectful Libertarians Hijack CPAC Poll – And Its Mission](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/02/14/disrespectful-libertarians-hijack-cpac-poll-mission/): > [@](#): > > …It has been the inclusion of the libertarian aspects of the past two years that has thrown the message of conservatism askew in a widely disproportional way. > … > Libertarians and Conservatives are as different as Libertarians and Liberals. The truth is libertarians are the worst form of political affiliation in the nation. Combining the desire of economic greed, with the amoral desire to promote any behavior regardless of its cost to our culture is a stark departure from the intent of the Founding Fathers. Oh, man, I _so_ want to be able to get out the popcorn for that upcoming show. Unfortunately, I think the likelihood of there being, y’know, an actual substantive rift in conservative politics is close to naught, at least for decades to come. The uneasy truce will continue – while the economy is recovering, libertarians will gain some traction; when the economy is stronger, the “moral” majority will dominate. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/74 "2011-02-15T16:01:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I said that I “didn’t hear a peep” about the deficit in the W years. You responded by posting a bunch of articles from the W years that said no one is talking about the deficit. But if you just want to feel like a “winner” here for some reason, knock yourself out. The peep I heard about deficits was “deficits don’t matter”. ---
**Author:** ![Beniamino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Beniamino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beniamino)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/75 "2011-02-15T16:14:43Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > So, there was an opinion piece by Kevin McCullough on [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) yesterday that I just came across: > […] > > > [@](#): > > > > The truth is libertarians are the worst form of political affiliation in the nation. Combining the desire of economic greed, with the amoral desire to promote any behavior regardless of its cost to our culture is a stark departure from the intent of the Founding Fathers. > > […] There are those on both sides of the aisle that would stand behind this statement 100%. That doesn’t make them _ **true** _ “Conservatives” (or Scotsmen for that matter). If I know someone’s social policy, it cannot be said that I can predict his economic policy or his foreign policy. Within the outposts of fascism, anarchy, globalism, protectionism, libertarianism, populism, socialism, and capitalism, there are myriad concatenations of political philosphy. In short, the labels “conservative” and “liberal”, standing alone, tell me very little about a person. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/76 "2011-02-15T17:35:19Z")
> [@Heyoka13](#): > > Yoiks!! > > I was googling and wiki-ing candidates on the list above and jumpin jehosaphat! > > Who did Santorum PO? > > Crikey, what do his kids, and relatives think of THAT? It’s not as embarrasing/funny as his concession speech when he got kicked out of office : [http://www.lies.com/wp/images/2006/11/santorum.jpg](http://www.lies.com/wp/images/2006/11/santorum.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/77 "2011-02-15T17:39:32Z")
As far as the OP goes, the opinion of a small bunch of political activists/political junkies at some conference is irrelevant. Nobody is going to run for election on a platform of massive cuts in services, it isn’t going to happen. And we’re not going to see big cuts in spending by wither side either. Eventually taxes will go up and programs will be reformed to spend less money. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/78 "2011-02-15T17:55:18Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > …In short, the labels “conservative” and “liberal”, standing alone, tell me very little about a person. Pish-posh to your post, for two reasons. Firstly, those terms standing alone tell one quite a bit about a person, especially when limited to American politics. Like all generalizations, they may fall short when applied to particulars, but that need not be the inferential stumbling block you want it to be. Secondly, the context of the cite is that of a social conservative (SoCon) writing about libertarians. We know that to this author, “_ **true** _ ‘Conservatives’” **ARE** SoCons. If you have an issue with the fallacious viewpoint, take it up with McCullough and FoxNews, but I suspect his viewpoint is fairly widespread amongst SoCons. And hence my hunkering for popcorn. 😃 In the broader context of the thread, it’s my opinion that there’s nowhere near a large enough number of [libertarians | Libertarians | fiscal conservatives | whatever] to successfully win elections on their own. IMHO, they absolutely _require_ votes from the SoCons and will for decades – perhaps _generations_ is a better expression of time frame – to come. Honestly, there’s very little that I’d like more than to see the SoCons lose influence in all aspects of American life…but it’s just not gonna happen (IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/79 "2011-02-15T18:00:04Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > Seconded. > > I would also add that if the socially conservative were to be snubbed by the Republican party and seek refuge with the Democrats, we might indeed have a new crop of “New Deal Democrats”. At least as Democrats, the old fogies who “see no value” in personal freedom can continue to vote after death. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164/80 "2011-02-15T18:06:49Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > So, there was an opinion piece by Kevin McCullough on [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) yesterday that I just came across. I have no idea whether he’s a prominent voice in Conserva-land, but it seems safe to say that this isn’t a unique view – [Disrespectful Libertarians Hijack CPAC Poll – And Its Mission](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/02/14/disrespectful-libertarians-hijack-cpac-poll-mission/): > > Oh, man, I _so_ want to be able to get out the popcorn for that upcoming show. > > Unfortunately, I think the likelihood of there being, y’know, an actual substantive rift in conservative politics is close to naught, at least for decades to come. The uneasy truce will continue – while the economy is recovering, libertarians will gain some traction; when the economy is stronger, the “moral” majority will dominate. Really? Cause all the legislation I’ve been hearing about has been moral conservative stuff, primarily anti-abortion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cpac-the-fall-of-social-conservatism/571164.md?page=5)