I think it may be a bit hasty to apply the “racism” label, here. It’s true that the poor suffer greater negative impact from current drug policy, but that’s just because the poor suffer greater negative impact from just about any policy. That’s what it means to be poor. It’s also true that there’s a correlation between being poor and being black in America, and that’s a real problem that needs to be addressed, but it should be addressed by helping blacks (and other poor) to elevate themselves out of poverty. You could make an argument that the social and political forces keeping blacks poor are racist, but that doesn’t mean that policies which impact the poor are necessarily racist.
I don’t understand. Are you saying cracking down on crack harms the black community more than it helps? Are you saying big, inner city cops should wander out of their legal jurisdictions and go out to the burbs to hunt white crack users and dealers, and this will help the black community how? Aren’t inner city cops supposed to be fighting inner city crime?
You seem to be saying fighting crime harms the black community in some disproportionate way, but I don’t understand how fighting crime harms anything but crime. If an affluent white crack dealer gets busted in his white, affluent community this does some sort of harm to that community? What is the harm that busting crack users and dealers do to a community?
From the OP:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10450485&postcount=1
which appears to be about the disproportionate sentences between the two crimes of possession and the aftereffects of arrest/conviction, but not primarily about specific law enforcement efforts to effect those arrests.
Not surprising.
Since 5.3% of blacks (.053 X 40.9 million, giving 2.17 million) have been crack users while 3.3% of whites (.033 X 221.3 million, giving 7.3 million) have used crack, the numbers of whites with the problem is actually greater.
As already pointed out in the second link I supplied, the “vending” habits appear to be different between the black and white communities, with street sales being more frequent in black communities and bar and work-place sales being more common in white communities. I don’t know why this happens, but it hardly changes the number of people affected.
It is not “fighting crime.” It is disrupting the society by hauling more citizens off to prison. If the same resources were devoted to sending white drug distributors to jail, resulting in 20% - 25% of all white males going to prison, there would be a serious harm to the nation, socially and economically. Since we can get away with only imposing that sort of harsh actions on an already marginalized minority, we can pretend that it is “helping” them in some way.
A greater percentage of whites than blacks abuse drugs, yet we imprison far more blacks than whites for the same offenses. You may not consider that to be a problem, but it is pretty clearly a race-related situation. Since I doubt that many people involved in perpetuating the situation are rubbling their hands gleefully that they are harming the black community, I would say that the cause is a societally based institutional racism rather than overt race hatred.
Lost a paragraph:
Big city cops would tend to ignore simple drug sales and concentrate on actual crimes if their budgets were not inflated by grants to “fight drugs.” That is why there are fewer arrests in the white communities–because we are not wasting huge amounts of money in the burbs chasing our tails to curtail a low-grade problem.
You’re assuming the powder cocaine is snorted. That may be the most frequent method of ingestion, but it’s not uncommon to see cocaine addicts turn to injection, which gives a much stronger effect than snorting cocaine or smoking crack, and takes effect almost as fast as smoked cocaine. And of course cocaine powder is easily converted into freebase or crack, which can can then be smoked.
And exactly why, praytell does it not surprise you?
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that a greater absolute number of whites have tried crack cocaine than blacks in America. It doesn’t follow that crack cocaine “is as great a problem in white communities” as you have claimed.
If it’s not obvious to you why, then I doubt I could succesfully explain it to you.
We’re not charging people with make-believe crimes, in order to haul them off to prison. If we let them go ahead and deal and use crack with abandon, this will restore the fabric of society and they’ll all become law-abiding mothers and fathers, albeit crack users and dealers?
Do 20% - 25% of all white males use and deal crack, or otherwise use and distribute illegal drugs?
What resources are you talking about? If you’re an LA cop, you’re an LA cop. We can’t disband the LAPD and reassign them all to the suburbs, leaving LA without law enforcement. I can’t imagine you think that would help the black, poor community.
I don’t think we “get away with it.” It’s just the way it is. Cops do what cops are supposed to do. They’re not social services. Social Services is Social Services. If you want to argue we need to do more there, I won’t argue. Not busting crack users and dealers doesn’t strike me as Social Services.
False, about the percentage. I won’t argue imprisonment rates, I have read it’s disporportionate, though I’m not convinced it’s racist: From whitehousedrugpolicy.gov
Not sure you can quantify like that, and frankly the “dosage” and “kick” don’t really factor into it. I think that you’re missing the human angle. It’s more popular because that’s what is slung to the poor folk. The poor don’t have the luxury of shopping around, and it’s rare that the people moving real weight would even talk to them. You come at a legit coke dealer and try to pick up a 5 or 10 sack and you’re lucky if all they do is laugh at you. A crack dealer is willing to do that nickel and dime stuff. Hell, I knew fools who would charge a buck or so for people to come by and just get a hit. Not to mention you can stretch a 10 dollar rock into multiple highs (however bad or short they may be), 10 dollars of coke is essentially worthless. Which one makes more sense for someone scrounging change to get geeked and forget the pain in their life? Crack is also easier to carry, conceal, sell, and do when compared to coke; all of which are important when you consider how poor people move around or where they hang out.
Then you got to factor in that making the crack gives the dealer additional opportunities to cut, you can short marks easier, and you can make more money with small sales. That situation appeals to a dealer who doesn’t have much to lose, which is likely to be a poor dude in the ghetto. Hence you got more crack coming outta there. This also means that the ones slinging rock put themselves into positions where they are more likely to get caught, which contributes to quite a bit of the discrepancy in arrests that tomndebb attributes to procedural racism.
Basically the culmination of the living condition, the economic status, and the predatory instincts of a dealer result in crack being more popular in poor areas.
Well, an ounce is a huge amount of cocaine. A single “line” of cocaine is roughly 20mg, so you’d get about 1400 lines of cocaine from an ounce. And smoking it gets it to your brain faster, so the high occurs quicker.
How do you define “do the most good”. I would define it as applying the resources on has in a way that it result in 1) the most arrests and 2) had the greater likelihood of nailing bigger fish.
Well, if meth use and labs are in white communities, and you mounted an effort to make arrests, you’d find yourself in white communities, would you not. at which time claims of “targeting white communities” would have the same validity as as the ones having to do with crack “targeting black communities”. And you can slice that as either having extreme validity or none. Take your pick.
As has been pointed out, the drug is not the same drug. It does not affect the body the same way. Nor does it cause the same intense desire for the next quick fix. Those are real things that effect people’s behavior and what what they will do to get their hands on the drug. And that, in turn, has a huge effect on the neighborhood.
Additionally, you seem to think that the absolute numbers tell the story. It should be obvious that one of the biggest factors is how concentrated crack use is in a community. Given that poor white communities tend to be more rural (larger geographically) you can have a greater number of users and still have it not be the problem is in an inner city neighborhood. I mean, would you rather live in a community that had 50 crack users on your block or 3?
Aside from the fact that your stats are silent on what constitutes usage (tried it once vs smoke it all the time) and if that is evenly dispersed between the two populations, you seem to be saying that any policy that doesn’t arrest three whites for each black arrested is racist. Is that right? I’d be surprised if that is actually your position, but that’s what I’m getting from your posts here so far.
This is more or less what I was going to say, but you said it better. 
My own position is that anti-drug laws are asinine and ineffective. Ignore drug use and spend any money currently being used to “combat” drugs on something else.
I no more think it’s my responsibility to govern what you do to entertain your brain than it is to govern what you do to entertain your genitals as long as it doesn’t bother the public and is done with open consent of any co-practitioners.
I am curious, though, at this racist notion you’ve got and what you propose as the remedy. I suspect, as Brazil84 implies, that we (society) would be accused of being racist if we did not criminalize drug use and prosecute it aggessively in the black community where it is reported to take such a toll. I may be completely wrong about this, but it’s my impression that drug-use and drug-related crimes renders the black inner-city cohort a heavier dysfunctional blow than the Type A day-trader using his nose candy on the weekend…
In any case, what is your remedy? Is it to make the crack less of an offense, or to crack down on powder? (Again, I am all for letting everyone rot their own sorry carcasses however they see fit. And I am particularly bummed at paying my tax dollars to house drug users and drug dealers both in prison. I’d be delighted to make my nighttime city walks safer by carrying around a satchel of crack cocaine packets to toss toward would-be assailants looking for my money to buy their drugs. “You just need drugs? Here, have some and leave me alone.”)
You’re right. I misread your questions and was looking at overall coke use, combined, rather than just the crack figures or the overall drug figures.
I do not look for any specific ratio. However, we are incarcerating up to 25% of young black males. We are not incarcerating anywhere near that many whites, even thought their use is within one and a half percentage points of black use. That has a direct impact on that section of society. And if the numbers are that only 9.8% of black people are using drugs, (per levdrakon’s and my links to government claims), the idea that 25% of them are in the drug trade is ludicrous. If we were making the same effort to imprison white guys, there would be mass demonstrations to change the laws, but since it is a minorirty group, folks just shrug and say “tough.” It is not just “tough,” it is a specific effort to pass feel-good laws and finance enforcement that oh so coincidentally affect people out of the mainstream.
Of course not. We are not creating make-believe crimes, we are simply playing make-believe with the need for differing punishments and then spending far more money on going after the crimes that we pretend are worse so that we can feel good about being tough on drugs even if it has no bearing on reality.
No, if you’re an LA cop, you are assigned to a section dealing with specific situations. We spend all sorts of money to send the DEA and the state equivalent organizations to the DEA along with taking cops off of the street and out of the homicide and the larceny and the arson sections in order to have them go chase drugs. LA would have a more effective police force if it spent more time and money pursuing violent crime without diverting efforts to drug enforcement.
I am unclear on two things:
1: Do you hold that the law is deliberately racist, or incidentally so? And was there no input from experts on the black community affected before, during or after the legislation was effected?
2: What is your preferred remedy?
chorpler, I’m unaware of the very latest data, but recent NSDUHs peg incidence of injected cocaine to around ~2-3% of all past-year cocaine users. Present, but miniscule.