# Cracked Plausible Conspiracy Theory: Trump could be a Democrat scheme **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 11, 2016, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528 "2016-05-11T08:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![erocked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f08c70/32.png) [@erocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erocked)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/41 "2016-05-12T18:54:28Z")
Here are 2 links that make a very clear albeit circumstantial case. Proof will be impossible to come by I’m sure. Have a read: > **[Is Trump a Democrat?](https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/12/is_trump_a_democrat.html)** > > From The Hill last July: > > > “I probably identify more as a Democrat” so sayeth Donald J Trump a few years ago during a CNN interview. During the same interview he opinionated (he does a lot of that) that “It just seems that the ec... > **[The Many Times Trump Rescued Dems](https://www.commentary.org/noah-rothman/many-times-donald-trump-rescued-democrats/)** > > It’s impossible to ignore the conspicuous regularity with which Donald Trump issues intentionally provocative, news-cycle-dominating comments. It’s equally difficult to look past their timing, which tends to often coincide with This doesn’t even mention the multitudes of crooked activities Hillary had been involved in or orchestrated on her own. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/42 "2016-05-12T19:03:43Z")
> [@erocked](#): > > Here are 2 links that make a very clear albeit circumstantial case. Proof will be impossible to come by I’m sure. Have a read: > > [Is Trump a Democrat? - American Thinker](http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/12/is_trump_a_democrat.html) > > [https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/many-times-donald-trump-rescued-democrats/](https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/many-times-donald-trump-rescued-democrats/) Yet here he is, running down Hillary at every opportunity. Yeah, sorry, I don’t buy it. > [@](#): > > This doesn’t even mention the multitudes of crooked activities Hillary had been involved in or orchestrated on her own. I think we can safely deduce your political orientation from that statement. ---
**Author:** ![erocked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f08c70/32.png) [@erocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erocked)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/43 "2016-05-12T19:10:27Z")
Independent. A true independent. I vote both ways, lol! Yes, Hillary is crook. I’m feelin the Bern. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/44 "2016-05-12T19:10:33Z")
> [@erocked](#): > > Here are 2 links that make a very clear albeit circumstantial case. Proof will be impossible to come by I’m sure. Have a read: > > [Is Trump a Democrat? - American Thinker](http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/12/is_trump_a_democrat.html) > > [https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/many-times-donald-trump-rescued-democrats/](https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/many-times-donald-trump-rescued-democrats/) > > This doesn’t even mention the multitudes of crooked activities Hillary had been involved in or orchestrated on her own. From my reading, the first link just says that Trump was a Democrat before this race, which suggests that he’s an opportunist, rather than a mole. The second article smacks of confirmation bias. Trump regularly says stupid shit; it’s easy to notice when that stupid shit corresponds to controversies (manufactured or otherwise) that might tarnish the Democrats. But does he _only_ say stupid shit when that happens? And, besides the vagaries of right-wing hate, I’m not sure what you mean in regards to “crooked activities” Hillary has been involved with or orchestrated. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/45 "2016-05-12T19:20:38Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > For example, he shouldn’t fall for articles in The Enquirer. For another, I would expect Trump to be able to go very, very deep on interest rates, different types of debt instruments, maturities, etc. Yet he doesn’t. The thing the remember is that iot doesn’t matter whether Trump believes the articles in the Enquirer or would realize that his economic plan makes no sense. All that matters is that he thinks the voters he is pandering to will believe the Enquirer, and think that his economic plan makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![erocked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f08c70/32.png) [@erocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erocked)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/46 "2016-05-12T19:33:14Z")
It’s not right wing hate that makes me call hillary a crook. I could go on for a while about her lies and unscrupulous business dealings. Some of them may be honest mistakes, but man she sure has made a lot of honest mistakes. In my line of work repeated mistakes are grounds for firing. And I’m not running for the highest office in the land. Here’s a very short and condensed list. Doesn’t even mention the repeated lies she is constantly telling. I guess it mentions some of the bigger ones. > **[A brief guide to Clinton scandals from Travelgate to Emailgate](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-brief-guide-to-clinton-scandals-from-travelgate-to-emailgate-2562906)** > > Hillary Clinton entered the presidential race under a cloud of scandal, from foreign contributions to the Clinton family foundation to her use of a private email account and server to conduct official business while secretary of state. But she and... I didn’t read the link, just scanned it to make sure most of the bigger ones were there. Hope this doesn’t derail the thread because it’s really a side note. Hillary is untrustworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/47 "2016-05-12T20:28:15Z")
> [@erocked](#): > > Here’s a very short and condensed list. Doesn’t even mention the repeated lies she is constantly telling. I guess it mentions some of the bigger ones. > > [http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-brief-guide-to-clinton-scandals-from-travelgate-to-emailgate/article/2562906](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-brief-guide-to-clinton-scandals-from-travelgate-to-emailgate/article/2562906) > > I didn’t read the link, just scanned it to make sure most of the bigger ones were there. Hope this doesn’t derail the thread because it’s really a side note. Hillary is untrustworthy. As I said, the “vagaries of right-wing hate”. But, I’ll agree to drop the issue, except to say that, whether or not Hillary Clinton is untrustworthy, it doesn’t tend to prove that Trump is a Clinton stooge. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/48 "2016-05-12T20:54:19Z")
> [@erocked](#): > > Independent. A true independent In my experience, this is code for “Extremely right-wing ideologue” of the “Everyone is terrible, therefore vote Republican” variety, not too far off from the so-called Libertarians who somehow manage to vote straight-ticket Republican in every election. Only people who swallow the right-wing mainstream media’s talking points hook, line, and sinker think Clinton is a crook. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/49 "2016-05-12T21:02:54Z")
While not qualifying as conspiracy theories, there’s been a steady drumbeat of GOP/right-wing op-eds attempting to blame Obama for the rise of Trump. You see, it’s the deep unpopularity of Obama’s policies that have driven voters into the Trump camp. Dissatisfaction with GOP policies? Morons who want one of their own running things? Fie and piffle! It’s That Man In The White House! ---
**Author:** ![erocked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f08c70/32.png) [@erocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erocked)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/50 "2016-05-12T21:18:49Z")
**Derleth** I think Obama has been a great president. Wish he would’ve done more. The country needs a president of the people. Obama would’ve been more effective without Republicans efforts to block everything. Anyway, back to the topic. Trump is a democrat mole. :smack: Some of the posters on this board just can’t wait to derail a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/51 "2016-05-12T23:49:48Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > It appears that the information comes from [this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-donald-trumps-plaza-deal-reveals-about-his-white-house-bid/ar-BBogHRI?li=BBnbcA1) pretty lengthy piece in the New York Times. I consider it even handed, but I’ll leave it to you to decide for yourself. > > And if you consider the New York Times to be a commie rag, then perhaps I can interest you in a National Review [editorial](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/424351/donald-trump-business-record) which questions Trump’s business prowess, essentially asking if he is just another celebrity who makes money by virtue of being famous. Thanks, **Moriarty**! I don’t think you’re chopped liver! > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The cite is from a solid article in the Sunday New York Times business section. Recommended for those with an interest in business or management, though it’s a little long. I was working from memory, so if you see some quotes to balance out the narrative, feel free to post them. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/business/what-donald-trumps-plaza-deal-reveals-about-his-white-house-bid.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/business/what-donald-trumps-plaza-deal-reveals-about-his-white-house-bid.html) > > I like the article because as I said it doesn’t touch upon one of his notorious investment errors. In fact, it displays some of his strengths. I’m not understanding this take. The article’s main focus is on Trump’s buying of Plaza, spending way too much, losing control of it, and having to sell it for a loss. It seems to very much touch on an investment error ?!? > [@](#): > > Here is another Times’ piece about Trump’s broader influence in NY property development. “The major banks, for their part, say they are leery of lending to him after having lost millions of dollars on past deals. Lawyers and contractors he has hired in the past say he is slow to pay his bills, and often shortchanges them. Even the few Wall Street executives who say privately that he is a friend are loath to speak publicly about him.” Trump acknowledges that his NY imprint isn’t what it was, but says (reasonably and accurately) that he has branched out to other geographic areas. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/nyregion/donald-trump-nyc.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/nyregion/donald-trump-nyc.html) > > FWIW, a friend of my parents was one of those contractors who found Trump slow to pay his bills. Bummer for your friend’s parents. I don’t think I’d want to be involved in business with Trump in any way. Anyway, I appreciate the cites, but after reading all of them, I’m still unable to answer basic questions like what have been some of his greatest successes, how did he actually build the real estate empire that he has now, what drove those successes, etc. Remember, what started this particular tangent was the claim that Trump’s only real strength is as a sales guy, and he hasn’t ever had mastery of the details of the nuts and bolts of actual real estate development. Perhaps a good way to examine that claim is to look at an actual success of his, from the earlier days, before he was just selling a brand. And by a success, I mean where he’s actually made money. And use that to understand what kind of role he’s taken there. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/52 "2016-05-13T03:56:11Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Thanks, **Moriarty**! I don’t think you’re chopped liver! Me neither! 😃 Shoulda given him a [h/t](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hat_tip). > [@](#): > > I’m not understanding this take. The article’s main focus is on Trump’s buying of Plaza, spending way too much, losing control of it, and having to sell it for a loss. It seems to very much touch on an investment error ?!? Not his worst one though. And he had a sound business plan and negotiation strategy: recall that in the 2000s the condos were eventually sold for $1.4 billion, so the deal _might_ have worked if Trump was decent at execution. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I appreciate the cites, but after reading all of them, I’m still unable to answer basic questions like what have been some of his greatest successes, how did he actually build the real estate empire that he has now, what drove those successes, etc. > > Remember, what started this particular tangent was the claim that Trump’s only real strength is as a sales guy, and he hasn’t ever had mastery of the details of the nuts and bolts of actual real estate development. Perhaps a good way to examine that claim is to look at an actual success of his, from the earlier days, before he was just selling a brand. And by a success, I mean where he’s actually made money. And use that to understand what kind of role he’s taken there. I’d like to ramp down “Solely a salesman” to “Mainly a salesman”. Because he does own a number of golf courses today. But those are good questions. I honestly don’t know enough to answer them in that sort of detail. If we could look at several years of his tax returns, we could impute a rough estimate of his net worth and changes in the same from his cash flows. I did read an anecdote on this message board. Check out the thread, [Donald Trump: How did such a nutcase get so rich?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=760980) : > [@Donald Trump: How did such a nutcase get so rich?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-how-did-such-a-nutcase-get-so-rich/723903/51): > > There is a component called “talent” which not everyone has. There’s also a component called luck, or timing. That talent fits exactly what is needed at the time. > > As I posted earlier, there’s a knack or talent called “salesmanship” which is a typical route to getting rich. It seems to me it’s a bit of empathy, to understand the customer, a bit of ego to believe some of your own hype (since nothing succeeds like confidence), and a bit of sociopathy, to push onto them what satisfies your agenda rather than the customer’s and not be bothered doing it. Trump has this talent, and he also had the practice - having daddy’s millions to help him get started and avoid certain potholes in the road. > > True, too, it was timing. The original Trump towers were a bit of genius. He finished with mostly the cheapest fixtures and materials, since the first thing a multimillionaire does with a condo is gut it and rebuild the interior. (Hopefully somewhat tastefully, not in gaudy tacky noveaux-riche fake baroque gilding like Trump’s penthouse on Apprentice) > > The other ventures he has participated in, the way he sells his name, he is a pretty good salesman. However, like his tacky penthouse, it’s all superficial bluster, not a deep and lasting understanding of long term strategy to build value. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/53 "2016-05-13T17:47:55Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Not his worst one though. And he had a sound business plan and negotiation strategy: recall that in the 2000s the condos were eventually sold for $1.4 billion, so the deal _might_ have worked if Trump was decent at execution. I know what you’re saying. And maybe that’s true. I guess my point boils down to this: if you have a hypothesis about why someone is successful (eg, “Trump’s success stems mainly from his skills as a salesman”), you should look at his _successes_ to test that hypothesis. Surely he must have some successes, but all these in-depth articles pointed to focus on his failures (and yes, I’d count Plaza as a failure, even if the reason for failure was his poor execution.) > [@](#): > > I did read an anecdote on this message board. Check out the thread, [Donald Trump: How did such a nutcase get so rich?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=760980) : Fun thread to read back on… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/54 "2016-05-13T22:54:39Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I know what you’re saying. And maybe that’s true. I guess my point boils down to this: if you have a hypothesis about why someone is successful (eg, “Trump’s success stems mainly from his skills as a salesman”), you should look at his _successes_ to test that hypothesis. Surely he must have some successes, but all these in-depth articles pointed to focus on his failures (and yes, I’d count Plaza as a failure, even if the reason for failure was his poor execution.) Sound logic. But you go with the evidence you have. I say the anecdote shows one of the strengths in his skill set. But very good point: if we want to know which of his strengths are most relevant, you need to look at his successes (like Trump Tower I suppose, but definitely the [Commodore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Hyatt_New_York) purchase). One complicating factor is that his successes occurred during the good parts of the business cycle, while his businesses fell apart during recession. That suggests a certain lack of forward thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/55 "2016-05-14T03:03:46Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > INow the website _Cracked_ has put it forward as a [plausible conspiracy theory](http://www.cracked.com/article_23864_5-stupid-conspiracy-theories-that-might-be-true.html). What say you all? Why is it a ridiculous notion? It would make the Clintons the smartest people ever for knowing what no one else in the world could foresee at the time, that Trump would succeed. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/56 "2016-05-14T06:32:51Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > It would make the Clintons the smartest people ever for knowing what no one else in the world could foresee at the time, that Trump would succeed. Within the theory, they didn’t need him to succeed as the opponent, only to disrupt the primaries and show the country the GOP’s weaknesses. It may have only been an experiment, even, just to see if they could. I don’t think it was a real conspiracy at all, but even with all the counter-arguments in this thread, I still think it plausible. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/57 "2016-05-14T11:48:40Z")
Agreed - I think Bubba was only mischievously trolling Trump with the phone call he denies (but then, he has to either way), hoping only that he’d disrupt the GOP’s image and get a little mud on Jeb!'s face before his nomination. It wasn’t until Trump showed more staying power than the Whackjob Of The Month Club pattern we saw last time that \*anyone \*thought he could actually win it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/58 "2016-05-14T14:08:43Z")
[RationalWiki explains](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Trump#Deep_cover_liberal.3F) the appeal of this theory: > [@](#): > > Serious Republican talking heads are half-entertaining rumors that Trump is not, in fact, a top-level douchebag, but actually one of the most successful political double agents ever planted. It’s easy to see the appeal of this theory: It’s painful for conservatives to admit the party is getting its just desserts for pandering to cretins; they’d rather just pretend that it’s due to Hillary’s witchcraft. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528/59 "2016-05-14T19:44:46Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > [RationalWiki explains](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Trump#Deep_cover_liberal.3F) the appeal of this theory: That explanation doesn’t make sense. Trump is a deep cover liberal and Republicans are getting their just deserts aren’t alternative explanatory theories. One is about Trump’s motivation, and the other is about why he’s been successful. I think a lot of people would agree that Trump’s nomination represents Republicans’ just deserts, and Trump’s motivation for running is completely irrelevant to this. Conversely, if it is too painful to believe that this is Republicans’ just deserts, it’s not necessary to believe anything in particular about Trump’s motivation, you just have to believe that his success is a one-off, flash-in-the-pan, cult-of-personality, or whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cracked-plausible-conspiracy-theory-trump-could-be-a-democrat-scheme/754528.md?page=2)