# Crackpipe Ray Nagin Lambastes Fed Govt.-NOLA Still A Mess! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399 "2006-08-27T12:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/1 "2006-08-27T12:27:12Z")
So the “mayor” of this dump still thinks the US Taxpayer should do everything! NOLA is still a mess-abandoned houses, junk cars , trash everywhere. Dispite 12 months since Katrina, no preparation for a future storm-so where did the 2$ billion go? How does this excuse for a leader keep a straight face? OK, they had a major disaster…but how about maybe PLANNING a little for the next one? And all of those abandoned cars-Nagin got an offer from a TExas junk dealer last year-they would remove all of the cars and pay the city $100 each-Nagin said no, we’ll have the city handle it! Such great results! NO A NEW STORM APPROACHEDS-LET’S SEE WHAT nAGIN WINDS UP DONG. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/2 "2006-08-27T13:54:13Z")
[This is what ticked me off](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/60minutes/main1933092.shtml). The guy is an ass. And the people of New Orleans are asses too if they voted to return him to office. > [@](#): > > On a tour of the decimated Ninth Ward, Nagin tells Pitts the city has removed most of the debris from public property and it’s mainly private land that’s still affected – areas that can’t be cleaned without the owners’ permission. But when Pitts points to flood-damaged cars in the street and a house washed partially into the street, the mayor shoots back. “That’s alright. You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed and it’s five years later. So let’s be fair.” :eek: And phooey on CBS for not spelling All Right correctly. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/3 "2006-08-27T16:57:39Z")
I think _very_ high of Nagin and I’m glad he got re-elected. Of all the politicos involved in Katrina, he came off by far the best. If you think Nagin is bad, what is your opinion of the others? Sheesh. The guy was routinely lied to by people making a lot of false promises. Blame the those people. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/4 "2006-08-27T17:04:18Z")
The buck stops with Nagin, and by all appearances he is a total fuck-up. Time to abandon NO to the swamps and start anew someplace better suited for a city. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/5 "2006-08-27T17:05:45Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > [This is what ticked me off](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/60minutes/main1933092.shtml). The guy is an ass. And the people of New Orleans are asses too if they voted to return him to office. > > :eek: There’s a “doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground” joke lurking in there somewhere… And I thought there were legal procedures that cities could use to clean up private property, if the property constituted a health or safety hazard? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/6 "2006-08-27T17:51:12Z")
Apparently any and all efforts to remove debris in NOLA were stymied for many months by the feds, who said that all property had to be inspected for things like asbestos before so much as one bulldozer could be brought in. (Considering the age of the homes, that’s not surprising…but it is _truly_ idiotic!) And then contracts could only go to approved contractors, who of course couldn’t do anything without the feds’ permission. Whereas in Mississippi, apparently a lot of property owners just ignored the feds and hired guys themselves to come get the crap up. Yeah, Nagin puts his foot in his mouth, but in this case the buck does **not** stop with him. It stops in Washington, which has allotted many billions for rebuilding efforts – but has barely sent one single dollar to actually do it yet. I saw a rundown report card of all the promised aid the other day; at least 95% of it has yet to even _begin_ to work its way towards the people who need it. The vast majority of the money supposed to help rebuild the Gulf Coast is in no way, shape, or form accessible to Nagin; he’s reduced to begging for handouts like everyone else. And those handouts have been painfully slow in coming. To put it on a more personal example, I’ll give you the example of a close friend of a friend, whose home was flooded to the eaves for several weeks and is sitting in an area with zero power to this day. FEMA wouldn’t help him because he had insurance, and his insurance company told him basically to fuck off, and just won a court case supporting their decision. So he can’t afford to tear down his house himself, and the government won’t do it for him. What’s he supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/7 "2006-08-27T18:47:05Z")
That may be, **Mama Tiger** , but the fact remains New Orleans was ill-prepared to deal with the storm, and their hurricane preparedness sucked. Florida came through with flying colors in 2004, when four hurricanes hit the state. Granted, no levies broke, but Nagin and Landrieu could have done more before the storm hit and they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/8 "2006-08-27T18:58:38Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Florida came through with flying colors in 2004, when four hurricanes hit the state. Granted, no levies broke, but Nagin and Landrieu could have done more before the storm hit and they didn’t. [How FEMA delivered Florida for Bush](http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1104/110304cm1.htm) > [@](#): > > Charley hit on a Friday. With emergency supply trucks pre-positioned at depots for rapid, post-storm deployment, the agency was able to deliver seven truckloads of ice, water, cots, blankets, baby food and building supplies by Sunday. On Monday, hundreds of federal housing inspectors were on the ground, and FEMA already had opened its first one-stop disaster relief center. > > By the end of September, three hurricanes later, the agency had processed 646,984 registrations for assistance with the help of phone lines operating 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Fifty-five shelters, 31 disaster recovery centers and six medical teams were in operation across the state. Federal and state assistance to households reached more than $361 million, nearly 300,000 housing inspections were completed, and roughly 150,000 waterproof tarps were provided for homeowners, according to FEMA figures. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/9 "2006-08-27T19:13:21Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The buck stops with Nagin, and by all appearances he is a total fuck-up. Time to abandon NO to the swamps and start anew someplace better suited for a city. Like on a fault line? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/10 "2006-08-27T19:17:00Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [How FEMA delivered Florida for Bush](http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1104/110304cm1.htm) Contrast that with five days with no food, water, ice, evacuation assistance, or anything else in NOLA. And while a certain amount of disaster planning should be done locally, at least the Jefferson Parish disaster manager, Maestri, was on his job; no amount of screaming could get help from anyone up the chain, unfortunately. To wit, from [one news account](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4331330.stm): > [@](#): > > Walter Maestri, head of emergency preparedness for Jefferson Parish, told the BBC that FEMA officials promised emergency teams from the area that they would supply food, water, medical provisions, and assistance with transporting evacuees from the city - all within 48 hours of the emergency. > > In the event, these emergency teams were left without the help they asked for. Yeah, FEMA really helped a whole bunch. Especially when they got swallowed up by Department of Homeland Security; now they don’t have the authority to sneeze without approval from way up the chain, let alone actually do something sensible like preposition supplies. Unless, of course, your the governor of a state that can deliver enough votes to your brother the prez, apparently. I’m not saying I like everything Nagin has done or said, but honestly, blaming him for things utterly and totally beyond his control really doesn’t seem fair to me. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/11 "2006-08-27T23:13:08Z")
The fact remains that he is so appallingly egocentric, ill-equipped and racist that , as this is at last check 2006 and not 1882, he has absolutely no right to be the mayor of the city. 1. " This city WILL be chocolate again". 2. “That’s alright. You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed and it’s five years later. So let’s be fair.” I kind of rest my case. His re-election was an insult to the system of fairly elected government in this country. YMMV. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/12 "2006-08-28T00:43:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So the “mayor” of this dump still thinks the US Taxpayer should do everything! Which taxpayers do you think should be paying, then? French? Australian? Nigerian? ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/13 "2006-08-28T05:33:16Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > That may be, **Mama Tiger** , but the fact remains New Orleans was ill-prepared to deal with the storm, and their hurricane preparedness sucked. > > Florida came through with flying colors in 2004, when four hurricanes hit the state. Granted, no levies broke, but Nagin and Landrieu could have done more before the storm hit and they didn’t. New Orleans survived the storm just fine. The levees, which have turned out to be arguably the most massive engineering failure in the history of this country, failed. They weren’t just overtopped… they FAILED. Spectacularly. From what amounted to a weak category three storm. We should never lose sight of the fact that the fault for that lies with the US ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. The levees aren’t the jurisdiction of the city and state… what \*exactly \*were they supposed to do? I’m not arguing that the city and state aren’t failing massively _since_ the storm, by any means. Lord knows, I’ve got a front row seat. But the fact that you are comparing this to Florida tells me that you really don’t quite comprehend the scope of what’s happened here. Massive deep flooding which stayed for weeks is just not comparable to wind damage. It’s the difference between a new roof and razing a home and rebuilding it. Do a little googling for the many news stories on how private insurance companies are going out of their way to avoid paying claims. And by the way, our governor’s name is Blanco, not Landrieu. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/14 "2006-08-28T05:38:58Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So the “mayor” of this dump still thinks the US Taxpayer should do everything! NOLA is still a mess-abandoned houses, junk cars , trash everywhere. Dispite 12 months since Katrina, no preparation for a future storm-so where did the 2$ billion go? How does this excuse for a leader keep a straight face? OK, they had a major disaster…but how about maybe PLANNING a little for the next one? And all of those abandoned cars-Nagin got an offer from a TExas junk dealer last year-they would remove all of the cars and pay the city $100 each-Nagin said no, we’ll have the city handle it! Such great results! NO A NEW STORM APPROACHEDS-LET’S SEE WHAT nAGIN WINDS UP DONG. 😕 Maybe he should do a raindance? What exactly do you suggest? Just a reminder, sweetcheeks… New Orleans is, in fact, part of the United States. Just like everyone had to chip in when Hurricane Andrew took a bite out of Florida a decade or so ago, when wildfires burn down the western states regularly, when the Mississippi flooded a good portion of the midsection of the country during the spring a while back, and oh yeah, when some terrorists shut down the freaking country about five years ago for a couple weeks… the U.S. taxpayer foots the bill. You don’t get to kick out the section of the country that’s costing you the most money this quarter. In any case, I seriously doubt that even a tiny fraction of the money we’ve spent in Iraq in the last three years will be seen in Louisiana when it’s all said and done. ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/15 "2006-08-28T12:12:55Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > And all of those abandoned cars-Nagin got an offer from a TExas junk dealer last year-they would remove all of the cars and pay the city $100 each-Nagin said no, we’ll have the city handle it! That was the same response he gave Amtrak, when they offered to evacuate the remaining residents, before the storm hit. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/16 "2006-08-28T12:25:11Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > The levees, which have turned out to be arguably the most massive engineering failure in the history of this country, failed. They weren’t just overtopped… they FAILED. Spectacularly. From what amounted to a weak category three storm. We should never lose sight of the fact that the fault for that lies with the US ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. The levees aren’t the jurisdiction of the city and state… what \*exactly \*were they supposed to do? Wrong. The levees fall under the jurisdiction of dozens of local committees who are responsible for maintenance and inprovements out of allocated funds, most of which just evaporate. Not the most massive engineering failure, but one of the best examples of political corruption in the history of this country, and it’s been going on for 300 years. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/17 "2006-08-28T13:50:06Z")
As a native Louisianan, I can’t take up for Nagin that much except that he is about the most sensible choice that could reasonably be elected by an impoverished, majority minority populace. He is no Marion Barry for example. Still, he is a MAYOR. They don’t have that much power. The governor is the chief executive of the state and the one with the power to get things done. She has failed at every single opportunity since Katrina was 5 days away and those of us on this board were starting to scream what she should be doing. She has blood on her hands from not having the first clue of what her powers are in terms of mobilizing the LA National Guard and starting the disaster relief processes at the federal level. Nagin is a small fish and doesn’t have much to do with anything except fodder for more laughter at the national level. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/18 "2006-08-28T13:51:44Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Wrong. As is your gloss of the levee design, construction amd maintainence story: [Who’s In Charge of the New Orleans Levees](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:F1heYa10nGwJ:www.asce.org/files/pdf/pressroom/hsgac12152005.pdf+Orleans+levees+site:www.asce.org&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a) > [@](#): > > Although the original levee system was built in the 19 > th century, the modern system was > designed in the late 1950s by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Today, the main stem levee > system, comprised of levees, floodwalls, and various control structures, is 2,203 miles long. > Approximately 1,607 miles lie along the Mississippi River itself and 596 miles lie along the > south banks of the Arkansas and Red rivers and in the Atchafalaya Basin. > The levee system in and around New Orleans is composed of two separate arrangements: the > Mississippi River Levees (MRL) and the Lake Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection > Levees (LPV). Significantly, the MRL is designed to protect from river flooding and it is an > entirely federal project under the control of the Mississippi River Commission. The LPV > provides storm surge protection and is subject to a multitude of local levee boards. Also, the > design criteria for the MRL are the Maximum Probable Flood, a very high standard, whereas the > LPV is designed for the Standard Project Hurricane, which is roughly a Category 3 hurricane. > Katrina came ashore as a Category 4 storm, and we are suffering the consequences There were several different failure modes: [Why Did the Levees Fail?](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:3Icay63UEbcJ:www.asce.org/files/pdf/katrina/testimony.pdf+Orleans+site:www.asce.org&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10&client=firefox-a) > [@](#): > > Rather than a few breaches through the floodwalls in > the city caused largely by overtopping, we found literally dozens of breaches throughout > the many miles of levee system. A number of different failure mechanisms were > observed, including scour erosion caused by overtopping, seepage, soil failure, and > piping. > As geotechnical engineers, we were particularly interested to find that many of > the levee problems involved significant soil-related issues… [continues with gory details] Over and over, design problems are cited. Your ‘political corruption’ story gets scant mention. Of course, the ASCE _might_ be a front organization for [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org)😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/19 "2006-08-28T13:53:39Z")
Ray Nagin seems to be a less than effective mayor, more ready to delegate blame than to assume responsibility. But most mayors seem small when confronted with a natural disaster (flood, wildfire, earthquake, drought) that destroys their cities. Many mayors would place blame elsewhere. The thing is, of course, some of them are wrong to do so, and some are right to do so, and some are partly right to do so. The difference in the promptness and magnitude of the federal response to Florida’s hurricanes and to Katrina (and the difference in the _quality_ of FEMA’s assistance as more and more Clinton-era personnel were purged), are evident in the contemporaneous news accounts as well as the historical view. But that’s a lesser issue, one that does little other than recognize, dimly, that government usually gets less professional as it gets smaller, and less effective as more levels of authority get involved. The big problem _here_ (since few of us are NOLA voters) is not a poor decision or even several of them on the part of a noisy local politician. The big problem _ **here** _ (meaning the SDMB) is the sheer number of posters who don’t notice or don’t care that one of us has decided to vomit up “crackpipe Ray Nagin” as an appellation for a black public official whose history records _no_ personal involvement with any illicit drug use. So where did our illustrious **ralph124c** come up with such a clever put-down? Surely not from the mere fact that crack cocaine use is more strongly associated with black Americans than other demographics? That would be just raise-the-CSA-flag-and-then-drop-dead-because-you-forgot-to-breathe stupid. Lord knows, the Marion Berry example _isn’t_ enough to prove that _all_ black men, even politically successful ones, smoke crack. In the absence of evidence, one must look for other reasons for **ralph** to have chosen _this particular method_ of characterizing a black man he doesn’t like (or know, or even know _about_, but that’s a problem for another day and a battery of abnormal psychologists). Since I’m assuming our friend isn’t just a brain-dead-unthinking-bigoted-product-of-his-own-sister’s-womb-nine-months-to-the-day-after-the-Christmas-morning-culmination-of-his-father’s-fourteen-year-patience, there has to be another explanation. Otherwise, Nagin may be the worst mayor in the planet’s history, and I’d vote for him for president before I shook hands with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399/20 "2006-08-28T14:16:48Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > Apparently any and all efforts to remove debris in NOLA were stymied for many months by the feds, who said that all property had to be inspected for things like asbestos before so much as one bulldozer could be brought in. (Considering the age of the homes, that’s not surprising…but it is _truly_ idiotic!) And then contracts could only go to approved contractors, who of course couldn’t do anything without the feds’ permission. Do you have a cite for these claims? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crackpipe-ray-nagin-lambastes-fed-govt-nola-still-a-mess/370399.md?page=2)