# Crafter Man: author of the two most appalling posts I've ever read here. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069 "2012-12-14T22:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/201 "2012-12-17T17:37:28Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > that isn’t even uncommon. Yes it is. It’s very uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/202 "2012-12-17T18:46:02Z")
Can we stop masturbating now? The weekend’s come and gone and my wang is pretty chafed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/203 "2012-12-17T19:09:30Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I hope he gets ironically shot, that would be hilarious [Moderating] Wishing death or injury on other posters is a violation of the board rules. Don’t do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/204 "2012-12-17T20:47:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Since we can’t eliminate all murders, is there a lesser margin of reduction that would be a fair trade off? 80%? 60%? Or is is total eradication or nothing? No, 80% would work for me. But let’s remember the fallacy of the beard. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/205 "2012-12-18T00:43:46Z")
Here’s another reason why I would appose more restrictions on guns as a response to the school shooting - I’m tired of laws being enacted to _try_ to prevent the actions of a few, but that negatively affect the rights of the rest of us. The US is full of nutters and if they want to hurt/kill a bunch of people at once they will find a way. Such as the Oklahoma City bombing and the Twin Towers tragedy. Yes, guns make it easier but again, why are the majority being punished for the actions of the few? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/206 "2012-12-18T00:51:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > The US is full of nutters and if they want to hurt/kill a bunch of people at once they will find a way. Such as the Oklahoma City bombing and the Twin Towers tragedy. Possibly you’re a little fuzzy on extremely recent history, but the cats who pulled off 9-11 weren’t from the US. It’s in books and everything. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/207 "2012-12-18T00:56:07Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Possibly you’re a little fuzzy on extremely recent history, but the cats who pulled off 9-11 weren’t from the US. It’s in books and everything. I know, but they were here in the US and instead of deciding to use a bunch of sub machine guns, they chose airplanes. Our nutters are not all citizens… 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![pwmeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@pwmeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pwmeek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/208 "2012-12-18T13:36:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A silly argument; the government could crush you like a bug if it was so inclined, guns or no guns. Gun ownership was high among the Iraqi populace under Saddam Hussein (we confiscated a lot); he didn’t care, it didn’t threaten his power in any way, and his military was a joke in comparison. The point about civilian gun ownership is that the government could not crush a hundred million gun owners “like a bug”, and if they tried, there would be nothing left to govern. Jefferson and a few others recognized this and did their best to assure that the US would remain under civilian control (as opposed to government/military). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/209 "2012-12-18T13:42:47Z")
> [@pwmeek](#): > > The point about civilian gun ownership is that the government could not crush a hundred million gun owners “like a bug”, and if they tried, there would be nothing left to govern. Two hundred million and change, akshully. That’s five Englands (or 2.6 Germanies in metric). And that’s of course assuming every last gun owner would a) fall in with the rebels (doubtful) and b) fight to the death, no surrender (exponentially more doubtful) ---
**Author:** ![pwmeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@pwmeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pwmeek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/210 "2012-12-18T13:44:51Z")
BTW Absolute, The notion that guns are dangerous to own derives from the way statistics are compiled in the US. “Family and friends” (as a classification of gun homicides) includes any two people who are known to each other. This includes rival drug dealers and other such criminals. If the statistics were compiled a bit differently, you might be surprised at how safe it is for a decent citizen to own a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/211 "2012-12-18T13:50:55Z")
You don’t need 200 million gun owners fighting to the death. All you need is a committed core group who are willing to carry out standard low-intensity insurgency warfare, terrorism if you prefer that term, against the government. As the US has found out several times now, M1 Abrams tanks, helicopters, stealth bombers, and all that other fearsome tech isn’t much use against an enemy that refuses to engage the army on a battlefield. The Soviets, the French, and other great powers learned similar lessons. **Der Trihs** and his ilk are powerfully fond of the image of a dim-witted gun owning yokel trying to take on a Stryker with his AR-15 and getting crushed like an insect. That will probably even happen a few times. What they refuse to consider is that not everybody is that stupid to start with, and those who aren’t stupid have studied what works and what doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/212 "2012-12-18T13:58:25Z")
Having paranoid delusions should prohibit one from owning a gun, right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/213 "2012-12-18T14:12:34Z")
> [@pwmeek](#): > > The point about civilian gun ownership is that the government could not crush a hundred million gun owners “like a bug”, and if they tried, there would be nothing left to govern. Sure they could. Organization and heavy weapons and armor and air support beats a bunch of guys with rifles every time. > [@Scumpup](#): > > You don’t need 200 million gun owners fighting to the death. All you need is a committed core group who are willing to carry out standard low-intensity insurgency warfare, terrorism if you prefer that term, against the government. As the US has found out several times now, M1 Abrams tanks, helicopters, stealth bombers, and all that other fearsome tech isn’t much use against an enemy that refuses to engage the army on a battlefield. The Soviets, the French, and other great powers learned similar lessons. All of which only apply to foreign occupation. The Soviets crushed anything like on their own territory with ease. > [@Scumpup](#): > > **Der Trihs** and his ilk are powerfully fond of the image of a dim-witted gun owning yokel trying to take on a Stryker with his AR-15 and getting crushed like an insect. That will probably even happen a few times. What they refuse to consider is that not everybody is that stupid to start with, and those who aren’t stupid have studied what works and what doesn’t. And none of those people are part of the “guns will protect our freedom” crowd, because it doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![pwmeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@pwmeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pwmeek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/214 "2012-12-18T14:19:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > \ > And none of those people are part of the “guns will protect our freedom” crowd, because it doesn’t work that way. You might be surprised. The “nuts” get all the publicity, but the vast majority of those people who feel an obligation to be part of the “checks and balances” are quite sane and able to make rational decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/215 "2012-12-18T14:27:15Z")
> [@pwmeek](#): > > You might be surprised. The “nuts” get all the publicity, but the vast majority of those people who feel an obligation to be part of the “checks and balances” are quite sane and able to make rational decisions. Don’t bother. He finds comfort and joy in his mental image of cloddish gun owners getting mowed down by government forces. It’s a recurring theme of his. I can’t be arsed to read over all his drivel, but I’d be comfortable betting that he has expressed some variation on it in virtually every gun thread in which he ever participated. Antis, IME, have a substantial minority of “true believers” who get off on the idea of gun owners being killed by military or LE. In another thread, a true believer expressed a total willingness to burn non-compliant gun owners to death in the event of government confiscation. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/216 "2012-12-18T14:33:22Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > In another thread, a true believer expressed a total willingness to burn non-compliant gun owners to death in the event of government confiscation. Link? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/217 "2012-12-18T14:33:34Z")
> [@pwmeek](#): > > You might be surprised. The “nuts” get all the publicity, but the vast majority of those people who feel an obligation to be part of the “checks and balances” are quite sane and able to make rational decisions. If so, that just makes them ignorant fools. Again; it doesn’t work that way. Rifles and handguns are not effective weapons for resisting a modern military. > [@Scumpup](#): > > Don’t bother. He finds comfort and joy in his mental image of cloddish gun owners getting mowed down by government forces. A very Freudian example of psychological projection. It’s the gun fetishists who get off on the thought of their opponents being massacred; who show up at political rallies with guns and make speeches about “Second Amendment solutions”. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/218 "2012-12-18T14:38:01Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Link? [Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=675892) **Boyo jim** starts off all hard; but it is only after **Marley23** (who isn’t even what you call a gun nut) calls him on it that he starts back-pedaling and weaseling. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/219 "2012-12-18T14:40:04Z")
200+ million was the number of Americans left if the government rounded up the 100 million gun-havers and summarily destroyed them. This was in response to **pwmeek** ’s assertion that there “wouldn’t be anything left to govern” in that event. But guns are useless if you choose not to engage the army directly. In that case you use booby traps, mines, IEDs, mortars, RPGs… IOW the Taliban/Viet Cong/Mujahideen/Iraqi insurgent toolbox. Your glock won’t cut it. Your AR-15 won’t either. As a guerilla, if you wind up in any kind of firefight, that engagement is _already lost_ for your side - it means that they can see you, which means that they can pin you down, which in turn means heavy firepower is already on its way. Do you realize just how lopsided the death toll was in Afghanistan, in Viet-Nam, in Chechnya, how lopsided it is in Syria right now despite the insurgency having access to much heavier equipment than even the nuttiest of American gun nuts do, and Assad’s military being positively risible compared to that of the US ? More importantly perhaps: if you’re down to low-intensity insurgency warfare, you won’t win. You might not ever conclusively “lose”, but you can never win. Because winning would require taking on those Strykers eventually. And as you yourself admit, that’s just not gonna happen with guns, or even the aforementioned insurgent toolbox. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/220 "2012-12-18T14:40:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If so, that just makes them ignorant fools. Again; it doesn’t work that way. Rifles and handguns are not effective weapons for resisting a modern military. > > A very Freudian example of psychological projection. It’s the gun fetishists who get off on the thought of their opponents being massacred; who show up at political rallies with guns and make speeches about “Second Amendment solutions”. Freud is considered to be of no more than historical value in psychology today. He’ll always be useful to folks who want a way to say “I’m rubber, you’re glue…” that they believe is more sophisticated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069.md?page=12)