# Crafter Man: author of the two most appalling posts I've ever read here. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069 "2012-12-14T22:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/61 "2012-12-15T03:17:18Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > That was exactly his point, remove a critical element and the problem goes away. It was not analogous to to what **Crafter Man** said. It may be analogous to what he _thinks_ **Crafter Man** meant. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/62 "2012-12-15T03:18:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How many gun murders were there in England last year? Very few. But there were lots of murders. UK’s murder rate is 1.2. Canada’s is 1.6, but its gun ownership rate is something like 30% of households and there are 30 guns per 100 people. So in UK people are not killed by guns. Murderers have to be more inventive. I am sure that’s very consoling to their victims. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/63 "2012-12-15T03:25:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Very few. But there were lots of murders. UK’s murder rate is 1.2. Canada’s is 1.6, but its gun ownership rate is something like 30% of households and there are 30 guns per 100 people. > > So in UK people are not killed by guns. Murderers have to be more inventive. I am sure that’s very consoling to their victims. What about a pointed stick? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/64 "2012-12-15T03:26:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > WTF are you talking about? You’re apparently delusional. The question to you is simple – would you give up your guns for the certain knowledge that there would never be another murder with a gun in the US? > > Or do you also believe guns = freedom, and the latter is impossible without the former? I own multiple handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I am a Lifetime NRA member. I would give them all up happily in exchange for the guarantee of there never being another gun murder in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/65 "2012-12-15T03:45:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Very few. But there were lots of murders. UK’s murder rate is 1.2. Canada’s is 1.6, but its gun ownership rate is something like 30% of households and there are 30 guns per 100 people. > > So in UK people are not killed by guns. Murderers have to be more inventive. I am sure that’s very consoling to their victims. You appear to have forgotten to mention that the UK is 1.2 and the US is 4.2. So lots of murders, but less than 1/3 as many as us. Maybe some of those guys don’t feel like being inventive? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/66 "2012-12-15T03:45:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I own multiple handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I am a Lifetime NRA member. > > I would give them all up happily in exchange for the guarantee of there never being another gun murder in the U.S. Ditto. I am slightly better armed than Uruguay, and I’d turn in every single one of them if I got that deal. Get to work, genie! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/67 "2012-12-15T03:59:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You appear to have forgotten to mention that the UK is 1.2 and the US is 4.2. > > So lots of murders, but less than 1/3 as many as us. And you forgot to address the comparison to Canada. Almost as many murders as Canada, but Canada has something like 20-30 times more guns per capita. How do you explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/68 "2012-12-15T04:09:40Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Aren’t you the piece of shit who bragged about switching places with your friend and fucking his girlfriend when she thought it was him? I believe that was a different poster whose name starts with an “S.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/69 "2012-12-15T04:15:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And you forgot to address the comparison to Canada. Almost as many murders as Canada, but Canada has something like 20-30 times more guns per capita. How do you explain that? It’s too cold to get out of the house? Low population density. Low income disparity. Aggressive genes scrubbed by the creation of Australia. Perhaps other things. The obvious takeaway is that going from 6 guns per 100 people (UK) to 30 guns per hundred people (Can) causes a bit of increase, and going from 30 to 90 guns per hundred people causes a lot of increase. I’m assuming that it isn’t purely the number of guns, and our crushing poverty has a lot to do with it, but it certainly looks like increasing the availability of guns increases the amount they are used. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/70 "2012-12-15T04:20:57Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Aren’t you the piece of shit who bragged about switching places with your friend and fucking his girlfriend when she thought it was him? Wait…What? > [@Lobohan](#): > > How many gun murders were there in England last year? How about [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings)? Yes, I know it wasn’t last year, but it was pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/71 "2012-12-15T04:24:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And you forgot to address the comparison to Canada. Almost as many murders as Canada, but Canada has something like 20-30 times more guns per capita. How do you explain that? Canadiens are bad shots? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/72 "2012-12-15T04:31:40Z")
Well, yeah, if you’re carrying that many guns, it’s gotta throw off your aim. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/73 "2012-12-15T04:33:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s too cold to get out of the house? > > Low population density. Low income disparity. Aggressive genes scrubbed by the creation of Australia. Perhaps other things. I see. And you don’t think it could be those “other things” with UK/US comparison - other than gun density? > [@](#): > > I’m assuming that it isn’t purely the number of guns, and our crushing poverty has a lot to do with it, but it certainly looks like increasing the availability of guns increases the amount they are used. Again, causation not proven. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/74 "2012-12-15T04:39:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I see. And you don’t think it could be those “other things” with UK/US comparison - other than gun density? > Again, causation not proven. I didn’t say it was. You were the one presenting nonsense as if it were fact. Now that we agree that you are offering horseshit, I suppose there is little left to do but dance. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/75 "2012-12-15T04:56:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > People can walk, bike or use mass transit to get to work or transport goods, and I imagine the hookers would adapt somehow if all cars were banned. > > Seriously, I don’t know diddly about Crafter Man and whether or not he’s nuts, but no matter how strict the guns laws were to become, massacres are going to keep happening in this country until the _root cause_ is fixed. > > And yes, it’s pretty disgusting that the antis have to jump in the very day a massacre occurs. Ok What is the _root cause_? How do we fix it? Oh and there was an attack at a school in [China](http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,5592318.story) today. Hummm. They don’t let the people own guns do they? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/76 "2012-12-15T05:03:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Low population density. Canada has a low population density, but only because it has lots of areas that are flat-out **empty**. Most Canadians live in areas just as densely populated as the parts of the US where people live. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/77 "2012-12-15T05:04:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Oh and there was an attack at a school in [China](http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,5592318.story) today. > > Hummm. They don’t let the people own guns do they? And not coincidentally, the victims lived. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/78 "2012-12-15T05:07:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Canadiens are bad shots? [So it would seem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Canadiens#Season_by_season_results). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/79 "2012-12-15T05:13:11Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Tho what they are for shouldn’t be a consideration, since this country was supposed to be about freedom to be and do what we want as long as we aren’t infringing on the rights of others. Tell that to drug enthusiasts. LSD, opiates, pot… don’t infringe on anything besides the perception of reality and yet you can’t do those. Why should their harmless fun be taboo, but yours is A-OK ? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069/80 "2012-12-15T05:15:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And not coincidentally, the victims lived. Only through the attacker’s fortunate incompetence. > **[List of school attacks in China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29)** > > Below is a chronological list of school attacks in China. > On July 10, 1995, Dong Chi (董驰), armed with a double-barreled shotgun and garden shears, attacked staff and students at a kindergarten in Meihekou, killing a six-year-old girl and wounding 15 other students and a teacher. Dong was shot and killed by police. > On April 1, 1996, Wang Xiangjun (王湘军), who was described as a mental patient, broke into two schools in Yizhang County, Hunan, stabbing seven students to death and injuring five other... March 2010 On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生) 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping, Fujian province; May 2010 An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010; [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crafter-man-author-of-the-two-most-appalling-posts-ive-ever-read-here/644069.md?page=5)