# Cram your Constitutional Amendment up your ass Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026 "2004-02-25T03:02:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/42 "2004-02-25T16:22:34Z")
CBS News/NY Times did a poll in December that found 41% of people thought that “homosexual relations between consenting adults” should be illegal. When you’re in a climate like that, I’m actually surprised at how well gay marriage polls. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/43 "2004-02-25T16:23:09Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > \>Vast majority of people in this country are fucking morons. > > Yep. Democracy’s great unless the people don’t agree with you, eh? > > I’m really surprised no threads have been started pitting the San Francisco mayor for blatantly disregarding his state’s laws. If you opposed Roy “10 Commandments” Moore, you should oppose this guy as well…unless you have an ideological double-standard. When Newsome disregards a state or Federal court order to discontinue the issuing of licenses, I will condemn him. Until such a court rules, however, whether Newsome’s actions are a crime or a successful challenges to an unconstitutional law remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/44 "2004-02-25T16:28:42Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > When Newsome disregards a state or Federal court order to discontinue the issuing of licenses, I will condemn him. Until such a court rules, however, whether Newsome’s actions are a crime or a successful challenges to an unconstitutional law remains to be seen. Did you know that Superior Court Judge Warren did, in fact, order the city to stop issuing licenses or appear at a show cause hearing? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/45 "2004-02-25T17:03:36Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > I’m FOR gay marriage, but calling this pandering in an election year is stupid, IMHO. > > [cite](http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=1664931&nav=0w0vL42v) > > The laws of this country are supposed to reflect the views of the people, and the vast majority of people oppose gay marriage. Yes majority rules but minority rights. The majority can not be allowed to interfer with the rights of a minority. Is marriage a right? What I’m wondering is if a religion will do gay marriages won’t this be religous descrimination? ‘by the powers invested in me by the holy church and by the state of such and such, I declare you husband and wife’. So, the state will give say Baptist ministers the authority to marry but not say Lutheran ministers (if that church decided that gay marriage was OK) would not be granted that authority? I do think we need one standard for the entire nation. I disagree with the ‘let the states decide’. That plan didn’t work out well when we let the states decide if they would be free or slave states and it won’t work now. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/46 "2004-02-25T17:03:54Z")
Then Newsome should stop issuing licenses. And if the state SC strikes them down as unconstitutional, thus upholding California’s We Hate Gays Law, Newsome should be removed from office. ---
**Author:** ![schplebordnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@schplebordnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schplebordnik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/47 "2004-02-25T17:14:24Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > In addition to what **schple** said, keep in mind that the [DoMA passed in the Senate with only 14 nay votes (and 1 abstension).](http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=104&session=2&vote=00280) Kerry didn’t vote for it, and Edwards was not in the Senate then. But Clinton signed it, so one can infer that Hillary would vote for it if it came up again. Those Dems who voted for it were well aware of their constituencies. > > I don’t know about this. I want to say that I don’t think it would pass, but I atually do think it has some chance. Let’s just say it ain’t no snowball in hell… yet. I’m changing my mind and saying now it is dead. Look at this news item: After Bush’s announcement Tuesday, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (search), R-Texas, said it would take time to gauge the level of support in Congress for a constitutional amendment. He suggested the difficulty of passing one may cause lawmakers to take a different approach to preserving marriage as a solely man-woman union. “We don’t want to do this in haste,” DeLay said. If DeLay isn’t out there trumpeting this as keeping the barbarians from the gates, he knows it has trouble (or he’s deliberately trying to backstab Bush). Either way, it’s going nowhere. And Bush is going to have to do some explaining why he threw this out there with no Congressional support for it. He’s beginning to more and more resemble his daddy. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/48 "2004-02-25T17:28:27Z")
“Did you know that Superior Court Judge Warren did, in fact, order the city to stop issuing licenses or appear at a show cause hearing?” Both sides are putting significant spin on the ruling: "In the other case, Superior Court Judge James L. Warren refused to grant a different group’s petition for a stay that would have abruptly halted the weddings. He said the plaintiffs had not met the legal burden required for such an emergency order. Warren did, however, agree to order the city to either ``cease and desist’’ issuing the disputed licenses or to come back to court on March 29 and explain why they haven’t, a ruling that attorneys for both sides claimed as a victory. ``The judge would not issue a cease and desist order unless the judge made a determination that the mayor is in violation’’ of the law, said Robert Tyler, a lawyer for the Proposition 22 Legal Defense and Education Fund, an anti-gay marriage group that takes its name from an approved ballot measure limiting legal marriage to heterosexual couples. But City Attorney Dennis Herrera insisted the judge had made no such determination and that the city had scored a major triumph by getting six more weeks to issue marriage licenses to gay couples and the chance to argue its case ``on the merits.’’ ``We believe we have very strong arguments,’’ Herrera said. : From this site: [http://www.nylawyer.com/news/04/02/021804j.html](http://www.nylawyer.com/news/04/02/021804j.html) ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/49 "2004-02-26T02:32:13Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > \>Vast majority of people in this country are fucking morons. > > Yep. Democracy’s great unless the people don’t agree with you, eh? > > I’m really surprised no threads have been started pitting the San Francisco mayor for blatantly disregarding his state’s laws.\*\* If you opposed Roy “10 Commandments” Moore, you should oppose this guy as well…unless you have an ideological double-standard.\*\* Emphasis mine. Roy “Theocratic Asshole” Moore, was and is an advocate for state imposition of religion, specifically Christianity, on the general public. This is a Bad Thing, as ably described by James Madison (one of the Constitution’s authors y’know) in his essay “Memorial and Remonstrance.” Mayor Newsome, although he is most likely trashing his career, is doing something noble: civil disobedience for humane reasons. You know, the stuff done by the likes of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.? Still think there’s an idealogical double standard? I don’t. I think there’s a difference between cruelty and human dignity, and Judge Moore is a cruel bastard, while Mayor Newsome is a humane man. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/50 "2004-02-26T02:55:09Z")
> [@Denis](#): > > Emphasis mine. > > Roy “Theocratic Asshole” Moore, was and is an advocate for state imposition of religion, specifically Christianity, on the general public. This is a Bad Thing . . . I don’t. I think there’s a difference between cruelty and human dignity, and Judge Moore is a cruel bastard, while Mayor Newsome is a humane man. Once again, in your **opinion**. Too bad a near-supermajority of voters believe that your **opinion** is wrong. And speaking of “reaping the whirlwind” . . . don’t you think a direct appeal to amending the Constitution has something to do with liberals’ preferred tactic of trumping democratically elected legislatures by judicial fiat? ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/51 "2004-02-26T02:58:11Z")
> [@Denis](#): > > Emphasis mine. > > Roy “Theocratic Asshole” Moore, was and is an advocate for state imposition of religion, specifically Christianity, on the general public. This is a Bad Thing, as ably described by James Madison (one of the Constitution’s authors y’know) in his essay “Memorial and Remonstrance.” > > Mayor Newsome, although he is most likely trashing his career, is doing something noble: civil disobedience for humane reasons. You know, the stuff done by the likes of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.? > > Still think there’s an idealogical double standard? I don’t. I think there’s a difference between cruelty and human dignity, and Judge Moore is a cruel bastard, while Mayor Newsome is a humane man. In addition, Mayor Newsom says that he is obeying the State Constitution (and there have been no legal decisions as to whether he is or isn’t, wait for March 29th at the soonest), while Judge Moore was in knowing violation of the US Constitution and explicit legal decisions regarding his actions. But that’s a whole 'nother can of worms. Plnnr & Otto, thanks for cites, I was just about to type similar responses. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/52 "2004-02-26T03:02:45Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > And after all these morons get fucked, they get pregnant and eventually beget other morons. > > And thus the number of morons increases. \ If you’re familiar with the “Roe effect”, another instance of reaping the whirlwind of irony. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/53 "2004-02-26T03:22:01Z")
Well, **Doghouse** , a supermajority of Americans think McDonald’s is good. That does nothing whatsoever to refute my opinion that their food is vile. That said, I suggest you do a little learning about what civil liberties have meant and continue evolving to be in our U.S. I suspect you won’t like what you find, but, really, it is a threat to nobody but those who want to impose their specious world views on others. As to the “judicial fiat” remark: Well, when it gets to the courts, judges are obliged to interpret the law according to the Constitution, not according to the pet peeves of any particular group, majority or minority. Take some time and try to understand this. They interpret the law for the good of the nation, not for Christians, atheists, gays, blacks, Asians, Latinos, and any other particular group you can mention. Accusing those judges who fulfill this duty as “activists” or other assorted epithets is pretty sad. By and large, they do a pretty good job, in my **opinion** , for the nation as a whole, whether the plaintiffs they hear are howling loonies or the most rational beings in the universe. Tough shit for control freaks, I know, but we don’t live in a small tribe, this is a huge nation with countless ethnicities and outlooks. “Liberty and Justice for All,” y’know? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/54 "2004-02-26T03:31:08Z")
> [@Denis](#): > > Well, **Doghouse** , a supermajority of Americans think McDonald’s is good. That does nothing whatsoever to refute my opinion that their food is vile. So I guess I should take your views on homosexual marriage as seriously as I take your views on McDonalds. Gotcha. Thanks for the analogy! > [@](#): > > As to the “judicial fiat” remark: Well, when it gets to the courts, judges are obliged to interpret the law according to the Constitution, not according to the pet peeves of any particular group, majority or minority. Ah. So you’re a “strict constructionist”, I take it–no “emanations” and “penumbras” for you? Between this and liberals’ sudden rediscovery of states’ rights (to recognize gay marriage), I’m amused to no end. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/55 "2004-02-26T03:41:41Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > In addition, Mayor Newsom says that he is obeying the State Constitution (and there have been no legal decisions as to whether he is or isn’t, wait for March 29th at the soonest), while Judge Moore was in knowing violation of the US Constitution and explicit legal decisions regarding his actions. Exactly. Newsom may be in violation of some laws, but he has other laws on his side anti-discrimination). So, as I like to put it, it’s only kinda illegal. I do not believe Moore had any such law in his corner. Though if I’m wrong, I welcome correction. Might I add that I support my mayor 100% in this battle, and I do not believe he his guilty of wrongdoing, morally or legally. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/56 "2004-02-26T03:44:48Z")
**Doghouse** , :rolleyes: The McDonald’s reference was for hyperbole and humor. Too bad it whooshed you. I’ve seen the term “strict constructionist” used to define many things. Which one do you think I am guilty of? And be amused all you want, jackasses like you need to find happiness somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/57 "2004-02-26T03:56:00Z")
> [@Doghouse Reilly](#): > > So I guess I should take your views on homosexual marriage as seriously as I take your views on McDonalds. Gotcha. Thanks for the analogy! Um, no, probably not, but you should consider that just because a bunch of people are in favor of something that doesn’t automatically make it right, or good or necessitate making it the only option for everyone else. > [@Doghouse Reilly](#): > > Ah. So you’re a “strict constructionist”, I take it–no “emanations” and “penumbras” for you? Between this and liberals’ sudden rediscovery of states’ rights (to recognize gay marriage), I’m amused to no end. I’m certainly amused at the President forgetting his Republican roots and coming out (no pun intended) staunchly against states’ rights and that part of the Constitution that says all the states have to recognize and treat as valid the acts of the other states. It’s also pretty amusing to hear him want to smack down a few million US citizens and then in the same breath say that it should be done with “…kindness and goodness and decency…” Is it too late for me to add “scurrilous hypocrite” to my original pitting of the man? There are several other things about him to amuse us all but those belong in other debates and/or rants. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/58 "2004-02-26T04:06:54Z")
BTW, **Doghouse** , I am fully in aggreement with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals blowing off of the “under God” bit from the Pledge of Allegience on First Amendment grounds. Do you feel the same way about blowing off of “Liberty and Justice for All” under some ill-defined, unConstitutional, and unAmerican grounds? Keep in mind that James Madison, author of “Memorial and Remonstrance” is also widely known as the “Father of the Constitution.” Have you troubled to read that essay yet? Or do you plug your ears and sing, “La, la, la,” when anything challenges you? Like it or not, the “All” referred to in the Pledge (and I leave it to you, with little hope you’ll bother to find out about it besides reading your own little idealogical ilk’s screeds) is Constitutional, unless you think it’s a static document. Sorry there, I’m not a “strict constructionist.” I think the Constitution is a very well crafted document that outlines the _growth and maintenance_ of U.S. freedom. It is a guide for an evolving nation that has withstood the test of time. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/59 "2004-02-26T04:18:06Z")
Ho hum. Nonsequiters, nonsequiters. I’m suprised you didn’t cite John Lennon and “Give Peace a Chance”. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/60 "2004-02-26T04:24:35Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > I’m certainly amused at the President forgetting his Republican roots and coming out (no pun intended) staunchly against states’ rights . . . I find amusing your belief that [“States’ Rights”](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/dixiecrat1.html) is a historically _Republican_ position. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026/61 "2004-02-26T04:37:56Z")
> [@Doghouse Reilly](#): > > I find amusing your belief that [“States’ Rights”](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/dixiecrat1.html) is a historically _Republican_ position. Come on Doghouse, over the last few decades anytime you heard a politician making a fuss about states’ rights and getting Big Government off our backs it has been the Republicans, not the Democrats. By and large this has involved a lot of hypocrisy (and no I don’t mean that Republicans are alone in this) since those same people seem quite content to have the Guvmint jumping up and down all over states’ (and individuals’) rights when it’s something that meets their narrow moral outlook of the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cram-your-constitutional-amendment-up-your-ass-bush/231026.md?page=4)