# Crappier By the Dozen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288 "2003-11-26T01:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/41 "2003-11-26T18:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Steve Martin is slummin in yet another “wacky,” disposable piece of crap, yet he would shine if he played Frank Gilbreth in a faithful film version of the original book.** I can’t understand that either. You have the source material. You have the cast. Would it really cost more to make “a good film” than to make “crap?” I mean, _Daddy Day-Care_ flopped, didn’t it? Do they really think that an intelligent, funny, edgy film would bomb that badly? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/42 "2003-11-26T18:37:45Z")
I’m with **Eve**. Lillian Gilbreth was a fascinating woman, widowed and having to carry on at a time when women had a lot more legal and social barriers to doing so without a man. Her memory and that of Frank deserves so much better. This isn’t the sort of story you can transport to the 21st century without losing a lot–even the story of poor Mary, who died at six of what–diptheria?–is important, as well as the fact that the parents never told the subsequent kids about her. I didn’t find out until she was ninety that my Grandma had had a kid about 18 months after her marriage that died (probably of SIDS) that was named after his father–I always wondered why my Dad, the third boy, was named after Grandpa and not Uncle Bob, the first one. I could relate to Frank Jr. and Ernestine’s more truthful book later about the secret. Sheesh. Well, maybe it’ll spawn interest in the REAL book(s). I take it the scene with the birth-control lady will be taken out, too. “And within twelve miles of the National Headquarters, too!” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/43 "2003-11-26T18:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > This isn’t the sort of story you can transport to the 21st century without losing a lot–even the story of poor Mary, who died at six of what–diptheria?–is important, as well as the fact that the parents never told the subsequent kids about her. This [site](http://gilbrethnetwork.tripod.com/dozen.html) says in relevant part: > [@](#): > > One question I frequently get is about little Mary Elizabeth Gilbreth. Mary, along with some of her siblings, came down with diphtheria, in 1912. While the others recovered, Mary didn’t and died on January 31st. However, you will find few references to Mary’s passing, in the Gilbreth books or even in their papers, at Purdue. > > The family never got over the loss of Mary and continued to refer to the Dozen, even though all twelve were never contemporaries. The story of the Dozen continued through the books and in the movies. This out of the family’s long sadness over her loss and their feeling that Mary was still with them, in spirit. So I don’t know what you mean when you say that the parents never told the others about her. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/44 "2003-11-26T22:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*I mean, _Daddy Day-Care_ flopped, didn’t it? \*\* Uh, no, it didn’t, at all. [It made over $100 million in the U.S. alone](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0317303/business) as counterprogramming against X2 and Matrix Revolutions, and is credited as one of the sole reasons Eddie Murphy has any sort of career again. I can’t imagine what movie you were actually thinking of… ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/45 "2003-11-26T23:00:17Z")
Hmmm . . . I must have been thinking “got universally vitrolic reviews as an utter piece of crap,” and made the flawed assumption that, umm, people didn’t go see it. “Never underestimate the intelligence of the public.” _Cheaper by the Dozen_ will probably outgross _Titanic_ . . . ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/46 "2003-11-26T23:08:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*95-year-old Ernestine? I figured all the kids were dead by now. \*\* Amazing, since Ernestine was one of the older kids, but yeah, IMDb says she was born in 1908 and is still alive. According to the book, Jane, the youngest was about two when Frank Sr. died in 1924, which would make her about 81 if she’s still around. Frank Jr. died in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/47 "2003-11-26T23:12:42Z")
Yes, I was really looking forward to this movie. Great story, loved both the books and the earlier movie, and I thought Steve Martin could do it justice the way he did _Parenthood_ and _Father of the Bride_. Then I saw that preview. The only possible saving grace is that previews can be terribly screwed up and inaccurate. I know a lot of people who are refusing to see _Elf_, which is a heartwarming, family-friendly Christmas movie, because the previews make it look like another Will Farrell gross-out comedy. Perhaps the previews are showing only a small slice of _Cheaper by the Dozen_ – the one moment when things get seriously out of control. I’m still waiting to read the reviews, but if the previews are accurate, I will be very disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/48 "2003-11-26T23:26:18Z")
The only time I can think of from the book when things got seriously out of control was when the father’s sister came to visit… and I think that was from “Belles,” anyway. It was hilarious, though. Or perhaps the clam chowder incident. Or Tom’s encounter with the British servant. Or… Dammit! I’m going to make a phone call to Robert Evans and get him to shut this movie down, fire everyone associated with it, and start a fresh, good version. Wait, I don’t know Robert Evans. Crap. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/49 "2003-11-26T23:29:19Z")
Here’s a synopsis from Rotten Tomatoes: > [@](#): > > A successful small-town football coach and his wife lead a surprisingly idyllic – if necessarily regimented – life with their family of twelve children. When dad gets an offer he can’t refuse to coach a Big Ten football team, the move to the city, his increasing workload, and his wife’s book tour, turn the clan upside down. [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/CheaperbytheDozen-10002498/about.php](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/CheaperbytheDozen-10002498/about.php) So, the cool setting is out. Part of the book was the early 1900s charm. Now he’s a football coach, so the whole “efficiency expert” thing is right out the door, which was like half the book. And “turn the clan upside down” is a PR way to say “Zany hijinks ensue.” And it’s got Steve “I haven’t made a decent movie in 15 years” Martin in it, presumably being the zany-but-loving-father. Sounds like a stinker to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/50 "2003-11-27T00:00:03Z")
Myrna Loy in the originals? I loved her in the Thin Man movies, maybe i should check these out… ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/51 "2003-11-27T02:16:26Z")
_Posted by Xenophon41:_ > [@](#): > > Tuberculosis? Are you sure? > Wasn’t it something more… operable, like tonsilitis? Yes, damnit, I meant tonsilitis, and he arranged to have all their tonsils out in one marathon session of surgery. Thanks for humiliating me, jackass. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/52 "2003-11-27T03:38:17Z")
And filmed it, too, so they could do efficiency studies on the doctor’s surgical technique. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/53 "2003-12-26T04:52:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*I also must add that to this day my standard shower routine is a modification of the father’s tub-efficiency model… \*\* Mine, too, **Dinsdale**! I loved those books. I will track down and kill everyone associated with this travesty. [Leaves, muttering ominously.] ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/54 "2003-12-26T16:29:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*And filmed it, too, so they could do efficiency studies on the doctor’s surgical technique. \*\* If I recall, didn’t the Gilbreths develop that technique where the doctor says, “Scapel!” and the nurse repeats, “Scapel!” as she slaps the instrument into the doctor’s hand, and so on? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/55 "2003-12-26T17:25:45Z")
Unfortunately, as sucky as I figure this film is gonna be, it’s gonna make a mint. It’s got the flavor-of-the-week for the tween crowd, and it’s a kid movie that’s come out around xmas that doesn’t have a huge xmas theme. Actually, re-write that as ‘very hyped’ kids’ movie that came out around xmas. Such a thing never fails to rake in the bucks as the parents get tired of having the rug-rats around and just want to drop them off -somewhere- for a few hours, pick the one childrens’ film that they’ve seen the ads for a million times, and trust it as is has a recognizably funny actor (Martin) in it. Its target audience is tweens and parents, and are the former going to stop going because it’s not like the book? Er… I don’t think so. It’s a Hollywood marketing formula that, frankly, makes me sick, but it works, so it’ll keep going. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/56 "2003-12-26T20:05:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*Just saw a promo for the remake of _Cheaper by the Dozen_, with Steve Martin. > > Oy. > > Those of you who’ve read the book and saw the original movie remember it’s a (true) heart-warming but rather dark and acerbic tale of the 12 children of an efficiency expert and his wife. Not always happy, though nostalgic. > > The new movie? It’s _wacky!_ It’s a goofy, slapstick story of Mom going out of town, the kids going nuts and silly, idiotic Dad falls apart and can’t handle things–_in a wacky way!_ > > I repeat, \*Oy. \* \*\* When I first saw the trailers, I thought this was a remake of _Yours, Mine and Ours_ with Henry Fonda and Lucille Ball. That was a good film. This looks like dreck! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/57 "2003-12-26T20:10:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*See, that’s what’s so annoying—the source material _would_ make a terrific film! Nuanced, dark, edgy, funny, heart-warming . . . Twelve kids trying to deal with being a “number” in a house run by an efficiency expert and his wry, harried wife. > > “But, _noooooo!_” (OK, I think that was Belushi and not Martin . . .) They turn it into yet another cutsey-kid slapstick crapfest. That sound you hear is a dozen kids rolling in their graves. \*\* Given the way Hollywood likes to end family films, with that “feel good, everyone learns a lesson” ending, I agree, your idea makes more sense. Dad would learn to be more compassionate, the kids would understand their father and mother would…well, do whatever it is that mothers do in these films. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/58 "2003-12-26T20:50:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miss Mapp \* > \*\*If I recall, didn’t the Gilbreths develop that technique where the doctor says, “Scapel!” and the nurse repeats, “Scapel!” as she slaps the instrument into the doctor’s hand, and so on? \*\* I don’t remember that part, but I do know that the filming idea didn’t go so well. The cameraman forgot to remove the inner lens cap and none of the operations were recorded. He sheepishly snuck out while the father was still under anesthesia and never returned. ---
**Author:** ![chicksdigscars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@chicksdigscars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicksdigscars)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/59 "2003-12-27T03:26:17Z")
Well, I just saw this movie today. I don’t see where it will draw the “tween crowd” as some suggested. Over 80 percent of the audience in the theater I saw it were over 20 years old. Might get a few to see Tom Welling, Ashton Kutcher (DUDE! hysterical!) or Hilary Duff, but it is more of an adult movie than a tween movie. I had no idea it was based on a book before I saw it. That said, the movie was funny and for those of you who think Steve Martin has made lousy movies, well you just don’t get Steve Martin. This was not his funniest role, but it wasn’t meant to be. The movie with Queen Latifah, Bringing Down the House, was a riot. I think that even people who read the book that this movie was “loosely based upon” will enjoy it even though it apparently no longer resembles the book. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288/60 "2003-12-27T03:56:10Z")
Oh, why bother to give an actual report of the movie. Just about everyone on this thread has made up his or her mind that the movie must be awful, without bothering to see it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crappier-by-the-dozen/215288.md?page=4)