# Crash in Niagara Falls (Wed November 22, 2023) \[Rainbow Bridge car explosion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [November 22, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546 "2023-11-22T19:23:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/101 "2023-11-25T13:39:10Z")
Sorry! Been away fer a li’l bit. Haven’t been keepin’ up with the news, either. Tripler I don’t get around to the SDMB as much as I used to. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/102 "2023-11-25T14:47:55Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > customs side, but I think it landed in the secondary inspection area The way it is set up, you have to do an S-turn to the right to get on the NW-bound side, and the reverse when you come out of the SE-bound side of the bridge where it reaches the US. US border control is on the incoming end, as you’d expect, and in the middle, dividing the incoming and outgoing lanes on the land side, are part of the US secondary inspection zone and customs/border security administrative/support facilities. Coming in a straight line from Main or Niagara Ave., the car would have catapulted onto _that_ area. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/103 "2023-11-25T15:27:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So I don’t really blame anyone who came down on either side of the terrorism/not terrorism question, expecially in the first few hours. It’s not binary, with people saying “it was” and “it wasn’t”. As quoted in the article I linked earlier, some right-wing politicians and news commentators in the States stated that it was a terrorist attack. Here’s what Trudeau said in the Commons, in response to Poilievre’s question about media reports of a terrorist attack: > [@](#): > > Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said a vehicle explosion at a Canada-US border crossing near Niagara Falls on Wednesday represents “a very serious situation.” > > “This is obviously a very serious situation at Niagara Falls. There was a vehicle explosion at the Rainbow Bridge crossing,” he told the House of Commons. Reserving judgment until he gets full information is a mark of a careful leader and politician. > **[Justin Trudeau Says Canada-US Bridge Explosion "Very Serious Situation"](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/justin-trudeau-says-canada-us-bridge-explosion-very-serious-situation-4598172)** > > Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said a vehicle explosion at a Canada-US border crossing near Niagara Falls on Wednesday represents "a very serious situation." ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/104 "2023-11-25T16:38:13Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > “Older” is at least 70s. Not where I’m presently living. We’re the younger set. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/105 "2023-11-25T16:51:28Z")
I don’t know whether that’s scary or encouragng. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/106 "2023-11-25T17:27:04Z")
Meanwhile a landslide in the town of Wrangell, AK (3 dead, 3 missing) goes virtually unreported. [Authorities identify 3 confirmed dead and 3 still missing in Wrangell landslide - Anchorage Daily News](https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2023/11/24/authorities-identify-3-confirmed-dead-and-3-still-missing-in-wrangell-landslide/) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/107 "2023-11-25T17:59:19Z")
Far away, obscure area, low body count, no dramatic video footage – yeh, that’ll be just a footnote in the news media outside Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/108 "2023-11-25T19:56:28Z")
Since there was talk about it being a mechanical problem, I had wondered if the Bentley was old, but it seems like it was a 2023 model. There were some problems with the accelerator sticking, but only for right hand drive cars, not left hand drive ones. The victims seemed to be well liked, and did a lot for their community. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/109 "2023-11-25T20:12:44Z")
That Bentley was _moving_ fast. When it hit the traffic island or whatever it probably ripped the gas tank open. Then it flew through the air, high, you can see that relative to the box van in the back of the video. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/110 "2023-11-25T20:16:28Z")
The N.Y. Post identified the Bentley model involved in the crash as a 2022 Flying Spur (irony noted). Regardless of the manufacturer casting doubt on the stuck accelerator theory, plaintiffs’ lawyers are no doubt licking their chops. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/111 "2023-11-25T20:40:32Z")
The most common V8 version of the current Flying Spur boasts a 0-60mph time of 4 seconds and tops out at just under 200mph. And is not the highest performance variant of the FS. Modern high dollar high performance cars are unbelievably quick. Even if they look like stodgy fat sedans. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/112 "2023-11-25T20:57:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Regardless of the manufacturer casting doubt on the stuck accelerator theory, plaintiffs’ lawyers are no doubt licking their chops. Given the total destruction of the car, the driver and the passenger, there is a major evidential issue. - Was it mechanical? Dunno. Accelerator, brakes, and mini-blackbox destroyed. - Was it a seizure by the driver? Dunno. No body to autopsy and no surviving witness from inside the car. - Was the driver driving too fast and crazy-like? Dunno. No mini-black box and no surviving witness from inside the car. Plus, who are the plaintiffs? Relatives of the deceased? They would have to prove that the accident was caused by a mechanical defect of some sort, and rebut any counter-claims by Bentley Inc. that the deceased driver was at fault. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/113 "2023-11-25T21:13:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Regardless of the manufacturer casting doubt on the stuck accelerator theory, plaintiffs’ lawyers are no doubt licking their chops. Plaintiffs’ lawyers see a whole lot of unspeakable sadness and tragedy. Many are profoundly affected by secondary trauma. We deal with parents who have lost a child, or chidlren who have lost a parent. Sometimes a spouse witnesses the traumatic death of their life partner. Perhaps some “lick their chops” when they read about misfortune, but the ones I know just try to help the victims’ families as best they can. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/114 "2023-11-25T23:00:26Z")
Yeah, it might have been a mechanical defect, but proving that in a court of law (even to a civil trial’s standard of “preponderance of the evidence”) is going to be extremely difficult. It might have been a mechanical defect, or it might have been a medical emergency, or it might have been an elaborate suicide, or it might have been a momentary panic, or it might have been a deliberate attack. You’d have to demonstrate that the defect was more likely than all the rest combined. And I don’t have the statistics at hand, but I suspect that for accidents as a whole (of the sort that leave behind evidence), medical emergencies and momentary panic both significantly outnumber mechanical defects. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/115 "2023-11-26T01:30:44Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Was the driver driving too fast and crazy-like? Dunno. No mini-black box and no surviving witness from inside the car. Right, this one could _conceivably_ get some observer evidence from any cameras looking at the street on the approach, but it would probably be of limited usefulness except to maybe know at what point the car’s motion became abnormal – we already know they were going hella fast, outside footage could not tell us _why_, only at best for how long. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/116 "2023-11-26T01:44:20Z")
Right, but without knowing _why_ they were going so fast, where’s a civil action? Malfunction or driver error? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/117 "2023-11-26T01:58:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Given the total destruction of the car, the driver and the passenger, there is a major evidential issue. Except that it wasn’t totally destroyed and there’s an ongoing investigation. Did you know there’s a legal subspecialty, [Sudden Unintended Acceleration Accident Attorneys](https://www.bestattorney.com/auto-defects/sudden-unintended-acceleration/)? Who you gonna call? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/118 "2023-11-26T01:59:59Z")
I’m just going by the news reports. The Governor of New York said that all they have is the engine block. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/119 "2023-11-26T02:06:11Z")
Sudden unintended acceleration is almost always driver error: The driver thinks they’re slamming on the brakes, but their foot is on the wrong pedal. I don’t think there’s ever been a verified case of it being due to equipment malfunction. It’d be very difficult for it to be a malfunction, anyway, since it’d require a failure of both the brakes and the throttle. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546/120 "2023-11-26T02:23:09Z")
There have been cases, though. One such cost Toyota $1 billion in fines: > [@](#): > > The most prominent incidents of sudden unintended acceleration recently took place from 2000–2010 in [Toyota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota) and [Lexus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus) vehicles, resulting in as many as 89 deaths and 52 injuries in the USA.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#cite_note-4) The NHTSA first opened an auto defect investigation into Toyota vehicles in 2004, but the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) within the NHTSA closed the investigation citing inconclusive evidence. Toyota also claimed that no defects existed and that the electronic control systems within the vehicles were unable to fail in a way that would result in an acceleration surge. More investigations were made but were unsuccessful in finding any defect until April 2008, when it was discovered that the driver side trim on a 2004 Toyota Sienna could come loose and prevent the accelerator pedal from returning to its fully closed position.[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#cite_note-5) **It was later discovered that the floor mats of the affected Toyota vehicles could cause them to accelerate suddenly, and that Toyota had known about these problems but had misled consumers and continued to manufacture defective cars. In March 2014, the Department of Justice issued $1.2 billion of financial penalties against Toyota in a deferred prosecution agreement.** [[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#cite_note-6) > > In January 2021, engineer Colin O’Flynn was able to induce unintended acceleration with a similar Toyota vehicle using [electromagnetic fault injection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fault_injection) (EMFI) on a test bench. He used an ECU and components from a wrecked 2005 Toyota Corolla. O’Flynn’s experiments were conducted without access to the ECU source code, and without access to the confidential report by the Barr Group.[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#cite_note-7) I’m pretty sure we have a thread from about 10 years ago where someone was charged with accelerating improperly and causing an accident, and further investigation said it was a mechanical flaw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-in-niagara-falls-wed-november-22-2023-rainbow-bridge-car-explosion/993546.md?page=7)