# Crash-landing jet: was ejection from the ground a good idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2022, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641 "2022-12-16T12:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/21 "2022-12-18T19:57:23Z")
Medical or, “Ya done fucked up, son”? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/22 "2022-12-18T20:03:12Z")
If you do eject and live, you get a very nice tie from Martin Baker, the seat maker. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/23 "2022-12-18T23:50:41Z")
“Ya done fucked up, son.” Thinking back on it (hey, it 35 years ago!) there had been a problem with the droptank then he got into a flat spin and couldn’t recover. Or that was two separate incidents. Whatever it was, his flying days were done. He finished out his enlistment period assigned to an army unit to call in airstrikes. We went clubbing together and he was good at identifying promising targets there as well. I don’t know which branch of service had provided better training, but I prefer to say that I was a wingman to the lead pilot on a mission. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/24 "2022-12-19T11:00:12Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > According to what I remember of what he said (35 years ago!), he said that he wasn’t allowed to fly again. Not being allowed to fly again could be due to a number of factors. A medical exclusion due to injuries sustained in the ejection certainly would be one of them, but I expect the powers that be will carefully go over a pilot’s actions in the time leading up to the ejection, and if if there’s any sign of poor judgment (and no shortage of new applicants), they may choose not to let that pilot near one of their planes again. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/25 "2022-12-19T11:32:23Z")
He was a friend of a friend in town for a visit. My friend was married and didn’t drink and the former pilot wanted a night on the town. As such I didn’t have a chance to hear the whole story. I think he would have said it differently if it had been a medical reason. My impression was that they had grounded him, and I presumed that they must have looked at it carefully. ISTR that my impression at the time was that he thought he should have been able to fly again, but it’s been too long to remember exactly what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/26 "2022-12-23T15:58:57Z")
Today I learned that the F-35 uniquely has an _automatic_ pilot ejection feature, specifically because of how rapidly the plane can invert when losing power to the forward lift fan: > **[The F-35B Can Eject Its Pilot Automatically](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/the-f-35b-can-eject-its-pilot-automatically)** > > Only the F-35B variant has an auto-eject system, a feature that is tied to its ability to hover in mid-air. Whereas the AV-8B Harrier tends to settle evenly when it loses thrust and gives the pilot time to choose an ejection, if the F-35 loses its forward lift fan, it can rapidly pitch forward to the point where an ejection at low altitude (where one is likely to be in hover mode) confers low survival odds. Thus the need for the plane to preemptively kick the pilot out when it sees that things are going to hell in a handbasket. I bet that’s a helluva surprise whenever it happens. Oddly, it doesn’t look like the auto-eject was activated in the crash-landing under discussion here; the forward fan failure happened many seconds before the pilot ejected, which seems to suggest that the ejection was pilot-initiated. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/27 "2022-12-23T17:41:29Z")
Wow. Today I learned … . Thank you. I recall that the Soviet sorta-equivalent to the Harrier1, the YAK-382, had a similar auto-eject feature. Ostensibly due to the low reliability of the engine. I was flying USAF jets during the heyday of both the Harrier & the Yak-38. Among US forces there was lots of pointing and laughing and derisive noises about NATO technical superiority over those crappy Soviet products that needed auto-eject. And now we have one of our own. A vastly more expensive one. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry or cringe at the hubris of 25yo me and all my contemporaries. And the DOD officialdom of the day. FWIW I agree this F-35B ejection seems man-triggered for the same reasons: it was real late in the accident sequence vs what I’d expect for an auto-triggered event. Which further supports the idea that there was maybe some confusion inside the computers about whether the airplane was in the air or on the ground after the nose gear caved in and it started pirouetting. Which is probably a good thing; there were points earlier in the dance where an auto-eject may well have been fatal. OTOH maybe, just _maybe_, the computer is smart enough to not auto-eject during a roll excursion at low altitude / on the ground. Figuring “first, do no harm.” IOW, maybe it’s punch the pilot out if/when a survivable set of parameters are reached. If that situation never happens to the computer’s satisfaction, either the pilot will save themselves or they were already doomed. If this is how it works I think the auto-eject took just about the first opportunity during the flail. If so: Well done, HAL! Bravo Zulu as the USN/USMC might say. * * * 1. > **[Harrier jump jet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_jump_jet)** > > The Harrier, informally referred to as the Harrier jump jet, is a family of jet-powered attack aircraft capable of vertical/short takeoff and landing operations (V/STOL). Named after a bird of prey, it was originally developed by British manufacturer Hawker Siddeley in the 1960s. The Harrier emerged as the only truly successful V/STOL design of the many attempted during that era. It was conceived to operate from improvised bases, such as car parks or forest clearings, without requiring large a... 2. > **[Yakovlev Yak-38](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-38)** > > The Yakovlev Yak-38 (Russian: Яковлев Як-38; NATO reporting name: "Forger") was the Soviet Naval Aviation's only operational VTOL strike fighter aircraft in addition to being its first operational carrier-based fixed-wing aircraft. It was developed specifically for, and served almost exclusively on, the Kiev-class aircraft carriers (heavy aviation cruiser in Russian classification). > Designed by the A.S. Yakovlev Design Bureau JSC, the first drawings showed a supersonic aircraft strongly resembl... ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641/28 "2022-12-23T18:52:59Z")
FYI, the pilot was ok. [Air Force pilot who ejected from F-35B released from the hospital (marinecorpstimes.com)](https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2022/12/16/air-force-pilot-who-ejected-from-f-35b-released-from-the-hospital/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-landing-jet-was-ejection-from-the-ground-a-good-idea/976641.md?page=1)