# Crash sucked. Nothing to do with Brokeback Mountain **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 24, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712 "2009-11-24T00:00:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/41 "2009-11-24T18:18:26Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > But in general, I find that the ones who can’t see past the idea that it is about “racism is bad” are people who don’t get undertones to things. There were undertones? I guess I missed them because I felt like I was being clobbered over the head with plot. It’s hard to hear the nuances when the volume is turned up to 11. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/42 "2009-11-24T19:43:52Z")
The idea that people dislike “Crash” because they preferred “Brokeback Mountain” is a claim desperately in need of support. “Crash” was heavy-handed and the characters were shallow. I have never seen “Brokeback Mountain”. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/43 "2009-11-25T01:47:44Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I loved Crash. I find it to be one of the better movies made in the last decade. Compared to some of the junk that’s won an Oscar, it does well. > > It’s not without its flaws, of course. But in general, I find that the ones who can’t see past the idea that it is about “racism is bad” are people who don’t get undertones to things. If your assertion is that the movie is about how bad racism is, or how prevalent, then you missed the point of the movie entirely. You might try re-watching it with an eye towards seeing if there is a deeper message. > > One simple point: perhaps the Iranian shopkeeper DOES get charged with attempted murder. We don’t know. That’s not the point to the scene. We don’t see what happens to any of the characters past the 24 hours of the movie. Does the white cop who kills the detective’s brother get discovered as the killer? Does he get punished? Does he change how he views life? Does he leave the scene and go have a hamburger, washed down with a Miller Lite? Who knows, and, frankly, who cares?? It’s irrelevant to the point of the plot. > > But go ahead. Keep getting righteously indignant because you couldn’t get past the idea that the movie is heavy-handed and the characters shallow. You just confirm things. You know, if you want to defend a movie, it might be more convincing if you actually defended the movie, instead of tossing off passive aggressive insults at people with different opinions. I’ve seen a ton of movies, and “get undertones” just fine thank you very much. **lissener** has probably seen more movies than anyone on the board. I’m confident undertones pose no problem for him either. Nor for many of the numerous other people who disliked this movie. I’m not “righteously indignant,” I just don’t think _Crash_ was a very good movie. That’s all I’m comfortable saying in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/44 "2009-11-25T02:05:15Z")
I liked _Crash_, the racism movie. I thought it was decent. It didn’t change my life and I didn’t despise it. I like ensemble-type movies. I think it’s deeper than most people give it credit for, but I don’t think it’s a masterpiece. That David Cronenburg movie, on the other hand, was a pretentious piece of shit. Glorified porn. And I say that as someone who generally thinks porn doesn’t get enough credit, artistically. I never saw _Brokeback Mountain_. I read the short story once and hated it. Boring as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/45 "2009-11-25T02:14:58Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You know, if you want to defend a movie, it might be more convincing if you actually defended the movie, instead of tossing off passive aggressive insults at people with different opinions. But Lissener’s own \*“it’s the non-thinking man’s thinking movie. It allowed people to ‘get it’ without any real effort, making them feel smart” \* gets a pass? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/46 "2009-11-25T02:19:13Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > But Lissener’s own \*“it’s the non-thinking man’s thinking movie. It allowed people to ‘get it’ without any real effort, making them feel smart” \* gets a pass? :rolleyes: You can yell at him for that, if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/47 "2009-11-25T02:22:21Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > The idea that people dislike “Crash” because they preferred “Brokeback Mountain” is a claim desperately in need of support. > > “Crash” was heavy-handed and the characters were shallow. I have never seen “Brokeback Mountain”. I saw Roger Ebert speak (when he could still speak) at a film festival not long after the Oscars that year. Someone in the audience asked him whether he thought _Brokeback Mountain_ should have beat out _Crash_ for Best Picture. Ebert said he’d been asked that question a lot, but that it was usually by people who hadn’t even seen _Crash_. He asked everyone in the audience who’d seen both movies to raise their hands, then asked everyone who thought _Crash_ was more deserving of the Best Picture award to put their hands down. He was right – there were only a few hands left in the air from _Brokeback Mountain_ supporters. An obvious majority of people present who’d seen both movies thought that _Crash_ deserved the award. I hadn’t seen _Crash_ at the time, but I did later and…I still would have gone with _Brokeback Mountain_. No question. I didn’t think _Crash_ was TERRIBLE, but it wasn’t even close to being as good as _Brokeback Mountain_. Still, I think it is true that after the Oscars some people who hadn’t even seen _Crash_ were angry because they believed it couldn’t possibly be as good as _Brokeback Mountain_. This thread should be proof enough that there are also people who saw _Crash_ and disliked it even though they’d never seen _Brokeback Mountain_, but I can see how people who liked _Crash_ might have gotten the idea that _Crash_-bashing was mostly coming from _Brokeback Mountain_ fans. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/48 "2009-11-25T02:24:54Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You can yell at him for that, if you want. Just seems odd that the person you’re defending did the exact same thing you’re condemming. I don’t think our views on the movie should affect what we expect of others on either side of the fence. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/49 "2009-11-25T02:48:42Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Just seems odd that the person you’re defending did the exact same thing you’re condemming. I don’t think our views on the movie should affect what we expect of others on either side of the fence. I tend to get more riled up when someone insults me than when they insult someone else. I figure everyone can take care of themselves. You’re right that **Lissener’s** comment was unnecessary and obnoxious. One should attack or defend the movie, not insult people who liked/disliked it, IMO. But I think it’s only human to react when it’s your ox that’s gored. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/50 "2009-11-25T03:05:52Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > That David Cronenburg movie, on the other hand, was a pretentious piece of shit. Glorified porn. And I say that as someone who generally thinks porn doesn’t get enough credit, artistically. It was dull too. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/51 "2009-11-25T03:17:59Z")
Anything with Elias Koteas _and_ James Spader automatically beats anything else. Koteas and Spader starring in _Tetris: The Movie_ would beat any film by the ferociously untalented hack Paul Haggis (who should be turned into the food which is his namesake.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/52 "2009-11-25T03:23:01Z")
So which of the two movies is more insistent upon itself? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/53 "2009-11-25T03:26:47Z")
_Brokeback_ had Heath Ledger sticking his dick in Jake Gyllenhaal’s ass. _Crash_ has James Spader sticking his dick in Elias Koteas’s ass, and in a scar in Rosanna Arquette’s leg - WIN ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/54 "2009-11-25T04:29:44Z")
I agree that Crash sucks. I don’t want to go on and on about why it sucks, and anyway, I’ve only seen it once and would not subject myself to it again to analyze why I disliked it so much. Mostly I’ve tried to put it out of my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/55 "2009-11-25T05:31:46Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > That David Cronenburg movie, on the other hand, was a pretentious piece of shit. Glorified porn. And I say that as someone who generally thinks porn doesn’t get enough credit, artistically. Best thing I can say about it was that it marked the time I had sex in a movie theater. Not because the movie turned us on or anything – it was just so dull that we decided that having sex would be a better use of our time. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/56 "2009-11-25T05:50:13Z")
Could you elaborate a little into how you were able to do that and get away with it? I’m assuming you mean real penetrative sex, not just a handjob or cock-sucking. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/57 "2009-11-25T20:24:15Z")
Late show, empty discount-style theater (just us in there), presumably apathetic staff. Girl wearing skirt on lap. I’m guessing just no one entered since we weren’t disturbed but who knows? Maybe they watched for a bit figuring it was better than the movie 😛 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/58 "2009-11-25T21:19:30Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Just seems odd that the person you’re defending did the exact same thing you’re condemming. I don’t think our views on the movie should affect what we expect of others on either side of the fence. Did my post describe you and your take on the movie? If not, then obviously I wasn’t talking about you, but about the people who DO approach the movie in that way. Do you honestly think I was suggesting there is only one monolithic way that all people react to that movie? Or does it perhaps make more sense that I was specifically addressing one particular response to it? If my post wasn’t about you, \*then it wasn’t about you. \*Why would you manufacture outrage by taking it personally, if it doesn’t describe you? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/59 "2009-11-25T21:30:03Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Do you honestly think I was suggesting there is only one monolithic way that all people react to that movie? No, of course not. Your original statement, “it’s the non-thinking man’s thinking movie. It allowed people to ‘get it’ without any real effort, making them feel smart,” was obviously binary. However, in regards to those who did enjoy the movie, it did seem that you blanketly insulted them. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/60 "2009-11-25T21:38:51Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Did my post describe you and your take on the movie? If not, then obviously I wasn’t talking about you, but about the people who DO approach the movie in that way. Do you honestly think I was suggesting there is only one monolithic way that all people react to that movie? Or does it perhaps make more sense that I was specifically addressing one particular response to it? > > If my post wasn’t about you, \*then it wasn’t about you. \*Why would you manufacture outrage by taking it personally, if it doesn’t describe you? This is craven backpedaling. You didn’t describe any “take” on the movie, nor any “approach” to it. You posted only a general smear of anyone who had a positive reaction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712.md?page=4)