# Crash sucked. Nothing to do with Brokeback Mountain **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 24, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712 "2009-11-24T00:00:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/61 "2009-11-25T23:18:05Z")
I’n not referring to any specific person, but let me just say that everyone who likes Capra movies has a secret buttsex fetish. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/62 "2009-11-26T00:25:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Crash is easily palatable, obvious self-righteous bullshit. It’s the non-thinking man’s thinking movie. It allowed people to “get it” without any real effort, making them feel smart. Oh yes, it’s a “teachable moment.” I hated it. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/63 "2009-12-04T06:34:34Z")
I became really busy and forgot I started this thread, so imagine my joy to return to it and discover that Reality Chuck has psychoanalyzed me based one short criticism of a film. Why would you assume I have no sense of dramatic imagination? Crash is a movie that is all about its heavy handed and obvious message, so I concentrated my criticism on this. I never said that my problem with crash was that it was unrealistic. I never said the cop and the Persian guy **would** be arrested, i said that they **should.** The cop and the Persian were intended to be sympathetic characters, but the movie failed to make me sympathize with them because they did such contemptible things. This would be an example of crappy drama and characterization . As for the blanks thing, you’re right, not a movie critique just some good advice. Honestly though Reality Chuck your posts made me burst out laughing. I didn’t like Crash because I don’t like having my worldview challenged? Why would you assume that I don’t think cops can and often are bullying dicks who get away with far too much? I love lots of sci-fi and fantasy movies, and movies don’t have to be realistic to be entertaining. Snatch did not portray the British underworld or boxing very realistically, the Godfather didn’t portray the Mafia very realistically, Star Wars doesn’t portray space travel realistically, but these are all movies I like. So you’re wrong Chuck. And it amuses me incredibly that you stereotyped me with very little information to go on while defending a movie that was all about how that’s bad. As to the accusation that I jumped on the I hate Crash bandwagon 5 years too late, I started this thread as a response to the notion that people only think Crash is bad because they liked Brokeback Mountain. A thought expressed recently in another thread. The other thread, if I recall correctly, was about movies that are popular to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/64 "2009-12-04T07:42:21Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > The cop and the Persian were intended to be sympathetic characters, but the movie failed to make me sympathize with them because they did such contemptible things. I thought that was sort of the point? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/65 "2009-12-04T09:20:54Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > As to the accusation that I jumped on the I hate Crash bandwagon 5 years too late, I started this thread as a response to the notion that people only think Crash is bad because they liked Brokeback Mountain. A thought expressed recently in another thread. The other thread, if I recall correctly, was about movies that are popular to hate. > [@lissener](#): > > Did my post describe you and your take on the movie? If not, then obviously I wasn’t talking about you, but about the people who DO approach the movie in that way. Do you honestly think I was suggesting there is only one monolithic way that all people react to that movie? Or does it perhaps make more sense that I was specifically addressing one particular response to it? > > If my post wasn’t about you, \*then it wasn’t about you. \*Why would you manufacture outrage by taking it personally, if it doesn’t describe you? Wheee! It’s like SDMB mad libs. Great job demolishing the OP, **lissener**! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/66 "2009-12-05T00:10:29Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > This is craven backpedaling. You didn’t describe any “take” on the movie, nor any “approach” to it. You posted only a general smear of anyone who had a positive reaction. Why assume a negative motive? People often say things, that, if parsed literally, are not exactly what they mean. Why should clarifying this inherently be backpedaling, and not just explaining? It is quite clear to me that **lissener** is only referring to people who think that the movie is highly intelligent. He is saying that these people only think this because they are not highly intelligent themselves. To an intelligent movie critic, a movie is only intelligent if there is a point beyond what the average person can understand. Anybody with half a brain can get the point of this movie. In other words, it’s a stupid movie that pretends to be smart. So, while a cursory reading of the post might make you think the point is to insult people who think the movie is intelligent, careful reading reveals it is about the movie itself. And I’m not sure what type of reading it takes to read it as “Everybody who likes the film is an idiot.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/67 "2009-12-05T00:18:28Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Wheee! It’s like SDMB mad libs. Great job demolishing the OP, **lissener**! Um, the OP only said that the idea was wrong. The person responding to **lissener** said > [@](#): > > But go ahead. Keep getting righteously indignant because you couldn’t get past the idea that the movie is heavy-handed and the characters shallow. You just confirm things. They are clearly attempting to imply that anyone who disagrees is an idiot. This shows that the person is much more angry than the OP. The OP gives no such indication of outrage. Thus **lissener** ’s post does not apply to them. Which, incidentally, seems to be the point he was trying to make in the comment. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/68 "2009-12-05T03:41:54Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > This is craven backpedaling. You didn’t describe any “take” on the movie, nor any “approach” to it. You posted only a general smear of anyone who had a positive reaction. If that’s how you read my post, you read it incorrectly. To the extent that this was my fault for not communicating clearly, I added clarification. That should be enough for you. If it’s not, this is exactly how much I care: ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/69 "2009-12-05T16:23:19Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The greatness of **Crash** – and, make no mistake, it’s a great film – is it’s handling the complexity of the racial issues. It’s not about racism per se; it’s about how our preconceptions about race color our judgment. It’s also about how our preconceptions can change. > > But it’s mostly a movie about character, not racism. Matt Dillon’s character – supposedly racist at first, turns out not to be; the audience draws a conclusion about him that we slowly discover is just not so. Wait. You think the audience was mistaken in assuming him to be a racist? Because, you know, he was. Car crash of redemption or not. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/70 "2009-12-05T18:11:18Z")
Actually you’re both wrong about the blanks. IIRC the guy selling the bullets to the Persian daughter was being a dick to her. She asked for the red box because she figured bullets are bullets. The guy started to say something to her about it but she cut him off because she thought he was saying something to be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/71 "2009-12-05T18:28:25Z")
> [@Talon\_Karrde](#): > > Actually you’re both wrong about the blanks. IIRC the guy selling the bullets to the Persian daughter was being a dick to her. She asked for the red box because she figured bullets are bullets. The guy started to say something to her about it but she cut him off because she thought he was saying something to be a jerk. It’s been a long time since I saw this movie, so I’m taking your word for the facts of the situation, but I don’t see how keeping your mouth closed when someone shuts you up equals “being a dick.” In the immortal words of Barbara Billingsley, “Chump don’ want no help, chump don’t GET da’ help!” ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/72 "2009-12-05T19:15:37Z")
> [@Talon\_Karrde](#): > > Actually you’re both wrong about the blanks. IIRC the guy selling the bullets to the Persian daughter was being a dick to her. She asked for the red box because she figured bullets are bullets. The guy started to say something to her about it but she cut him off because she thought he was saying something to be a jerk. No. I’ve never accepted that assertion. She was a highly educated woman. She knew exactly what she was buying; she did it to keep her father from actually killing someone out of stupid anger. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/73 "2009-12-05T19:20:14Z")
> [@Talon\_Karrde](#): > > Actually you’re both wrong about the blanks. IIRC the guy selling the bullets to the Persian daughter was being a dick to her. She asked for the red box because she figured bullets are bullets. The guy started to say something to her about it but she cut him off because she thought he was saying something to be a jerk. That’s not the way I remember it. There was nothing in the movie to indicate that the daughter thought she was buying regular bullets and got blanks by mistake. The scene in question is intentionally vague about what exactly is happening. The daughter says she wants a particular box of bullets, and the shopkeeper says something like “Are you sure?” or “No, you don’t want those.” The daughter insists that she does want them. Only later does it become obvious that she had purchased blanks, and it seems likely that she did indeed do it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/74 "2009-12-05T19:21:23Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > No. I’ve never accepted that assertion. She was a highly educated woman. She knew exactly what she was buying; she did it to keep her father from actually killing someone out of stupid anger. Agreed, I just watched it again a week ago and it’s always been very obvious (to me at least) that she knew what she was getting. Plus, didn’t she check the drawer again at the end of the movie, confirming that it was indeed the blanks he had used (and she clearly wasn’t surprised)? ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/75 "2009-12-05T20:25:57Z")
Maybe I am wrong then. That’s how I interpreted the scene back when I saw the movie. Maybe the guy wasn’t being a jerk, but she was expecting him to and didn’t listen to him, thus providing another example in the movie of racial tension. That’s why it made sense to me. But I guess I am the one who was wrong. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/76 "2009-12-05T20:58:24Z")
> [@Talon\_Karrde](#): > > Maybe I am wrong then. That’s how I interpreted the scene back when I saw the movie. > Maybe the guy wasn’t being a jerk, but she was expecting him to and didn’t listen to him, thus providing another example in the movie of racial tension. That’s why it made sense to me. Well, you’re still sort of right–the guy was very much being a jerk. But that didn’t change that she knew what she was buying. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/77 "2009-12-06T06:11:05Z")
QER ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/78 "2009-12-06T06:39:42Z")
Any movie that has someone loading someone else’s self-defense gun with blanks needs to be opposed on principle. That is a totally twisted and fucked up “lesson” to be teaching people, akin to the idea that it’s good to sabotage the brakes on your dad’s car. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/79 "2009-12-06T09:43:24Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Any movie that has someone loading someone else’s self-defense gun with blanks needs to be opposed on principle. That is a totally twisted and fucked up “lesson” to be teaching people, akin to the idea that it’s good to sabotage the brakes on your dad’s car. I didn’t realize that was a “lesson.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712/80 "2009-12-06T16:00:11Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > QER Apologies. That was a message from my cat, Bertram. I wondered why I had been subscribed to this thread! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crash-sucked-nothing-to-do-with-brokeback-mountain/518712.md?page=3)