# Crazy idiot derails train in LA for crazy idiot conspiracy "reasons" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846 "2020-04-02T00:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/61 "2020-04-03T06:59:52Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I saw this incident on my news feed this morning, and clicked to a story on the Fox News web site. Then I scrolled down to the comments. > > About half of them were speculating that this guy was an illegal alien, apparently based on his name and nothing else. Another 30% were ridiculing how stupid libs are. Riiiight. Like undocumented aliens can get licensed to operate a freaking train. Wow. The fauxers/trumpeters/magats really are brainless. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/62 "2020-04-03T13:22:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Riiiight. Like undocumented aliens can get licensed to operate a freaking train. Wow. The fauxers/trumpeters/magats really are brainless. Look, it’s a lot easier to be racist when you are stupid so give them a break. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/68 "2020-04-03T17:00:48Z")
I was in that neighborhood last November, touring _Iowa_ just around the corner from the World Cruise Center on **Machine Elf** ’s Google map link. Being also a train nut I was interested in the Pacific Harbor Line railroad and prowled around where they were thickest on the ground. Looking at the video I was curious there wasn’t a wheel stop or bumper at the end of track, but looking on the google map, I see there _was_ a bumper – likely right up to the time a locomotive drove through it. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/69 "2020-04-03T20:20:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No. He’s a fucking idiot and a lunatic. Nomen est omen. Anagram his name. Moron(e) ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/70 "2020-04-03T20:24:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That would be Putin. They don’t even have to scrap the signs; they can just print “utin” stickers to cover up the “ence”. The trick is just convincing Evangelicals that Putin is name-checked somewhere in Revelations… > > Stranger And by Niostradamus as well, to cover all the bases. Is Moreno going to cite good ol’ Nostra as evidence? Seems he needw to find a lawyer whio is good with conspiracy theories… regarding which, why did most of them only come to light once the world went online? That’s actually a rhetorical question. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/71 "2020-04-04T14:59:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Seriously: [Feds: Man intentionally derailed LA train near hospital ship](https://apnews.com/22cfbc4806c0befc7d8623c0bfa0cc53) > > :eek:“Oh sure, Bo; that does seem crazy!” you’re thinking. > > I haven’t gotten to the crazy part yet::smack: > > So that’s the crazy part. Here’s the idiotic part:😕 > > Thanks Fox News, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Bill O’reilly, Laura Ingraham, the 3%-ers, the Bundy clan and everyone else who celebrates ignorance and spreads misinformation, suspicion and hatred! > [@guizot](#): > > They don’t just celebrate it. Once they realized how many idiots like this there are, they built an entire ecosystem upon them, (and have been cashing in on it, too). All Trump had to do was walk in and pull the switch. Using identical logic, one can argue that anyone who protested the Vietnam War should have been arrested as a co-conspirator with the radical groups that bombed draft and recruiting offices. Geez people, is the concept of individual responsibility completely dead? Or is everything the fault of one’s “climate”? Take this to its logical end and you end up with inquisitions punishing people for spreading heresy. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/72 "2020-04-04T15:21:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Using identical logic, one can argue that anyone who protested the Vietnam War should have been arrested as a co-conspirator with the radical groups that bombed draft and recruiting offices. > > Geez people, is the concept of individual responsibility completely dead? Or is everything the fault of one’s “climate”? Take this to its logical end and you end up with inquisitions punishing people for spreading heresy. ” Fox News, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Bill O’reilly, Laura Ingraham,…” et cetera have intentionally lied and deceived their viewers with baseless conspiracy theories. They have inflamed fear and anger based on racial prejudice and have manufactured conflict from whole cloth. They may not be personally responsible for any individual action, but they are collectively responsible for creating an environment where a large segment of people reflexively distrust verifiably factual information from authoritative and transparent sources. They are, metaphorically and in some cases almost literally, yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater. And yes, when you inflame fear and stoke a panic, you are responsible for the consequences. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/73 "2020-04-04T15:37:29Z")
…and not to torture the analogy too much, but since scientists say water can be used to put out a fire in a theater, it may not be true. Instead use your trusty firearms and shoot out the fire extinguishers, big whoosh…saved like in the movies!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/74 "2020-04-04T15:39:57Z")
Yeah agree with the aboave… …and not to torture the analogy too much, but since scientists say water can be used to put out a fire in a theater, it may not be true. Instead use your trusty firearms and shoot out the fire extinguishers, big whoosh…saved like in the movies!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/75 "2020-04-04T15:41:47Z")
Yeah agree with the above… …and not to torture the analogy too much, but since scientists say water can be used to put out a fire in a theater, it may not be true. Instead use your trusty firearms and shoot out the fire extinguishers, big whoosh…saved like in the movies!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/76 "2020-04-04T15:49:06Z")
Sorry about multiple posts!!! Gateway 502 error is causing me troubles.:o ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/77 "2020-04-04T17:41:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ” Fox News, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Bill O’reilly, Laura Ingraham,…” et cetera have intentionally lied and deceived their viewers with baseless conspiracy theories. They have inflamed fear and anger based on racial prejudice and have manufactured conflict from whole cloth. They may not be personally responsible for any individual action, but they are collectively responsible for creating an environment where a large segment of people reflexively distrust verifiably factual information from authoritative and transparent sources. They are, metaphorically and in some cases almost literally, yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater. And yes, when you inflame fear and stoke a panic, you are responsible for the consequences. > > Stranger “Creating an environment” culpability is a dangerous concept; it may sound fine when applied to people and ideas you bitterly disapprove of, but what happens when you’re on the wrong end of the stick? It’s been notoriously misused in the past, such as when publishers of leftist radical newspapers were tried for “inciting” bombings and assassinations, not to mention the infamous Draft Laws of the World War One era which criminalized virtually any dissent against the war. Taken to an extreme, it’s a secular replay of the Reformation/Counter-Reformation religious wars of the 17th century where both sides attempted to sanction thought. Cranks only find an audience when there are people ready to listen to them. I would say that Limbaugh et al are the result, not the cause, of a strongly disaffected segment of society- just like calls for worker uprisings and revolutions at the turn of the 20th century were only taken seriously when pauper labor and desperate urban poverty were the norm. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/78 "2020-04-04T18:02:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > “Creating an environment” culpability is a dangerous concept . . . Yes, but there is precedent. [Julius Streicher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher) was hanged at Nuremberg for his leading role in creating an environment of virulent, brutal anti-semitism during the Nazi era. AFAIK he never personally harmed a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/79 "2020-04-04T19:52:24Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > “Creating an environment” culpability is a dangerous concept; it may sound fine when applied to people and ideas you bitterly disapprove of, but what happens when you’re on the wrong end of the stick? It’s been notoriously misused in the past, such as when publishers of leftist radical newspapers were tried for “inciting” bombings and assassinations, not to mention the infamous Draft Laws of the World War One era which criminalized virtually any dissent against the war. Taken to an extreme, it’s a secular replay of the Reformation/Counter-Reformation religious wars of the 17th century where both sides attempted to sanction thought. > > Cranks only find an audience when there are people ready to listen to them. I would say that Limbaugh et al are the result, not the cause, of a strongly disaffected segment of society- just like calls for worker uprisings and revolutions at the turn of the 20th century were only taken seriously when pauper labor and desperate urban poverty were the norm. There is a qualitiative difference between making statements that are controversial or call for change, and making provably fraudulent claims with the express intent of inflaming public sentiment or inciting hatred toward an ethnic group. What Fox News, et al does is the latter, and they do it so blatantly and [with such obvious hypocracy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNineSEoxjQ) that there really isn’t any question that what they are doing is directly leading to people taking violent, terroristic action. Do I think Fox News should be shut down, or Hannity, et al should be silenced just because I disagree with their ideology or way of doing business? No, because that would be the dangerous precedent you are (legitimately) worried about. But when Sean Hannity makes a specific and provably false claim that causes someone to go shoot up a pizza shop, he should be held accountable for his part in inciting that violent act. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/80 "2020-04-04T20:50:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Using identical logic, one can argue that anyone who protested the Vietnam War should have been arrested as a co-conspirator with the radical groups that bombed draft and recruiting offices. No, that is not “identical logic” to the proposition, but try again. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/81 "2020-04-05T02:13:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > There is a qualitiative difference between making statements that are controversial or call for change, and making provably fraudulent claims with the express intent of inflaming public sentiment or inciting hatred toward an ethnic group. What Fox News, et al does is the latter, and they do it so blatantly and [with such obvious hypocracy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNineSEoxjQ) that there really isn’t any question that what they are doing is directly leading to people taking violent, terroristic action. > > Do I think Fox News should be shut down, or Hannity, et al should be silenced just because I disagree with their ideology or way of doing business? No, because that would be the dangerous precedent you are (legitimately) worried about. But when Sean Hannity makes a specific and provably false claim that causes someone to go shoot up a pizza shop, he should be held accountable for his part in inciting that violent act. > > Stranger There are libel and incitement laws; AFAIK, Fox News et al take care to not violate their letter. Again, it’s a case of they couldn’t stay in business selling bullshit if nobody wanted to buy it. > [@guizot](#): > > No, that is not “identical logic” to the proposition, but try again. Yes it is. Now, do you want to debate above the four year old level? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/82 "2020-04-05T02:18:19Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Yes, but there is precedent. > > [Julius Streicher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher) was hanged at Nuremberg for his leading role in creating an environment of virulent, brutal anti-semitism during the Nazi era. AFAIK he never personally harmed a Jew. Nuremberg was victor’s justice, handing out guilty-by-definition convictions. About five years later, US and UN prisoners of the North Koreans and Chinese were being murdered for their “crimes against humanity”, which was held to be more or less synonymous with opposing communism by armed force. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/83 "2020-04-05T03:24:24Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Nuremberg was victor’s justice, handing out guilty-by-definition convictions. About five years later, US and UN prisoners of the North Koreans and Chinese were being murdered for their “crimes against humanity”, which was held to be more or less synonymous with opposing communism by armed force. Uh, it really does not sound like grown up debating when you compare evidence based trials with kangaroo courts. It is interesting, but gruesome to find that Churchill, like Stalin wanted to do like the communists in the Korean war. > **[BBC - History - World Wars: Making Justice at Nuremberg, 1945 - 1946](https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/war_crimes_trials_01.shtml)** > > Explore the trials that tried to bring justice to Nazi war criminals. > [@](#): > > the [Nuremberg] trials reflected legal norms that were embedded in the natural law tradition, and were not mere expressions of vengeance. It has been better for the history of the last 60 years that Churchill did not get his way. BTW some defendants at Nuremberg were not executed or had their convictions dropped for lack of evidence or exculpatory evidence. Again, not what the US and UN prisoners got. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/84 "2020-04-05T04:54:19Z")
On the plus side, now there’s one less Chump voter come November. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846/85 "2020-04-05T16:11:53Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Yes it is. > > Now, do you want to debate above the four year old level? My point was that Fox Network (and others) have exploited the stupidity of people like this to create a loyal audience which has provided them great financial gain, (so that it was easy for Trump to exploit, too, in getting elected). There is NO logical connection between that point and whether Vietnam protesters are responsible for bombings. I was not addressing the issue of responsibility for stupid acts at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/crazy-idiot-derails-train-in-la-for-crazy-idiot-conspiracy-reasons/850846.md?page=5)