# Creating chaos/conflict as a management style **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258 "2018-03-08T20:12:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/21 "2018-03-09T22:03:52Z")
I’ve been fortunate enough to have never been in that sort of toxic environment, but I do remember going to school with some kids who would have embraced that if they ever wound up in management positions. Hell, I’m sure they’re using that as their primary interaction no matter what jobs they hold now. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/22 "2018-03-10T05:09:10Z")
In 2010, several weeks before I lost a long-term job I thought I would retire from, we had a meeting where we were told that all the departments in the hospital would assign a couple of employees to be snitches. :eek: That’s not how it was phrased, but that’s exactly what was said. We all knew exactly who those people probably would have been in our department, and I know now that they did me a favor in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/23 "2018-03-10T08:46:22Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The “chaos/conflict” management style is a self-serving strategy that is favorable to narcissistic assholes and morons. It creates enough noise and distraction to provide an illusion of activity. It’s also appealing to people who want carte blanche to treat others as shitty as possible My background is similar (though more manufacturing-based) and I’d agree with all your points and particularly the one above. The best managers I’ve seen have been those who have surrounded themselves with good people and listen to them. They provide clarity and vision and trust people to do their jobs. With those basic boxes ticked they can still be unlikeable and demanding but they get stuff done. A conflict-laden, undermining, demeaning, confusing, capricious workplace is not neither happy nor productive (other than by accident) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/24 "2018-03-10T11:44:59Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It also plays well with a “reality TV” management team where the goal is audience entertainment from the chaos and drama of the team, not the team actually accomplishing anything meaningful. > I’ve heard that companies like Amazon and Netflix have environments where employees are encouraged to constantly challenge each other. Done correctly, I imagine it could be a good way to avoid stagnation and foster constant improvement. Done poorly, I imagine that it could create an extremely toxic environment. Or both, depending on your perspective. > As a professional manager and management consultant, I hold an MBA, a Project Management Professional cert from the Project Management Institute, have spent 20 years working and consulting for the Fortune 500, Wall Street investment banks, Silicon Valley tech companies and the Big 4. Even a few government agencies. I try to keep abreast of management trends and styles as much as I can. Nowhere have I encountered anything that leads me to believe “creating internal chaos and conflict” is considered to be a legitimate leadership or management style. Endeavors may succeed IN SPITE of such a style, not because of it. > > Think about it. > > Is a team more effective when it’s members openly share information or when they withhold it for fear that any information they provide can be used against them? > > Does a sales team sell more when its members backstab and undercut each other or when they work together (or at least don’t work cross purposes). If you were a customer, what would you think if several different sales people from the same company approached you in an apparently uncoordinated (or worse, conflicting) manner? > > What complex enterprise or initiative works better when each function pursues its own interests, independent of the whole? > > What company benefits from a high turnover of disgruntled employees? > Which is not to say some level of competition isn’t good. Sales, for example, could benefit from a system that rewards performance. > The “chaos/conflict” management style is a self-serving strategy that is favorable to narcissistic assholes and morons. It creates enough noise and distraction to provide an illusion of activity. It’s also appealing to people who want carte blanche to treat others as shitty as possible Good summary. I can’t imagine working for Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/25 "2018-03-10T12:06:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Even a few government agencies. My condolences. ☹ I’m an “on site” contractor at a government facility. Every day I see what goes on their organization. I could tell you stories you would refuse to believe. They live in La La Land. I don’t think it’s possible to fix their system. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/26 "2018-03-10T14:29:52Z")
In one of my last jobs there was a manager who was sort of like that; he was mainly targetted to us consultants, but shat glass on anybody’s desk whenever he felt like it. Everybody seemed terrified of him, including his managers. We eventually found out from his boss’s boss that the ass’s actual job description was “keep the consultants under control”. All the in-house people came from [One Of Those Firms](https://despair.com/products/consulting), had very low experience and generally no fucking idea what they were doing (a couple of exceptions to this last thing). They didn’t want to train the end-users, but whined in pretty much every single meeting that “the users don’t know shit”. Then again, the in-housers themselves were so lost they couldn’t have given much training if they’d tried… We were threats. We were assumed to have that kind of attitude as well; those of us who didn’t were an even bigger threat, because if we got our way and taught anything to the end-users they might start to notice how little IT knew; and my left little toe knows more about, not just ‘my’ subjects but any I normally interact with, than the in-house people. The ass’s job was to preserve their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258/27 "2018-03-10T22:17:28Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The best managers I’ve seen have been those who have surrounded themselves with good people and listen to them. They provide clarity and vision and trust people to do their jobs. With those basic boxes ticked they can still be unlikeable and demanding but they get stuff done. A conflict-laden, undermining, demeaning, confusing, capricious workplace is not neither happy nor productive (other than by accident) Good managers try to hire people smarter than they are. Bad managers try to hire people dumber than they are. If the good manager makes a mistake and hires a relatively dumb employee, she will try to make him better. If a bad manager mistakenly hires a smart employee, he’ll try to make her fail. That way he feels better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creating-chaos-conflict-as-a-management-style/810258.md?page=1)