# Creation "Science" textbooks by Bob Jones University **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299 "2003-02-06T20:32:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sherman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Sherman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/1 "2003-02-06T20:32:24Z")
After reading several of the Creation-Evolution threads here, I thought would ask this question. Has anybody ever came across the science textbook put out by Bob Jones University for Chrisitain Education? I was in a Christian bookstore recently and notice them and pick them up to see what kind of science is being taught in Christian schools. The high school level textbook mainly deals with basic chemistry (periodic table, compounds) and physics and some biology. The biology section was very weak. Mainly was just human and animal anatomy plus classification of organisms. And lab experiments dissecting frogs? The part to me that was weak is there was no discussion at all that I noticed on the fossil record, geology, or any extinct organisms (dinosaurs or mammoths). It was just left it out. At the beginning there a general discussion about the holes in evolution such as their understanding the law of thermodyanmics and how the whole theory conflicts with a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2. Also there was a weird discussion how the origin of the moon. Basically they stated the theory of capture sounded ridiculous. They tried to make a joke about the theory sounded to much like an adventure story about a pirate capturing another ship. That was the analogy they used. I guess they were trying to be funny. Sorry for the rambling. Just wanted to share that with y’all. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![Purplefloyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7cd45c/32.png) [@Purplefloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purplefloyd)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/2 "2003-02-06T20:36:41Z")
It sound to me like they dont wanna let people think for themselves because it would threaten thier belief system. A belief system based on ignorance (omision of facts) is a system that i wouldn’t want to be a part of. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/3 "2003-02-06T20:38:15Z")
> [@](#): > > At the beginning there a general discussion about the holes in evolution such as their understanding the law of thermodyanmics and how the whole theory conflicts with a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2. Also there was a weird discussion how the origin of the moon. Basically they stated the theory of capture sounded ridiculous. They tried to make a joke about the theory sounded to much like an adventure story about a pirate capturing another ship. That was the analogy they used. I guess they were trying to be funny. :eek: This is being taught at a University!:eek: Oh my…The situation is worse than I feared. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/4 "2003-02-06T20:40:39Z")
I don’t think it can get too deep into anti-evolutionist creationsism and still be an accredited science text. I don’t think they can put factually incorrect information into a science curriculum, so they just try to avoid the topic all together or just raise the point that some people think that evolution conflicts with the Bible, or, prerhaps make a half-hearted attempt to portray evolution as more hypothetical than it really is or suggest that it still has unanswered questions (which it does). ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/5 "2003-02-06T20:45:40Z")
for more info on Bob Jones university [www.nobojo.com](http://www.nobojo.com) has some good stuf. it is, as the name suggests, anti bob jones, so don’t be surprised if it’s not a glowing report of the educational establishment. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/6 "2003-02-06T20:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sherman \* > **The biology section was very weak. Mainly was just human and animal anatomy plus classification of organisms.** I do wonder what classification scheme they are using. Since most attempts at classification involve classifying on the basis of relationships, such a scheme would be meaningless in a creationist context. All they could really do in order to maintain some sort of biblically-literal consistency is to group “like with like” on the basis of appearance. And, of course, they would have to come up with a meaningful definition of “kind”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/7 "2003-02-06T21:35:08Z")
If I’m not mistaken, Bob Jones isn’t acredited in the first place. (BTW, stupid question-what does acredited mean, exactly?) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/8 "2003-02-06T21:40:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*If I’m not mistaken, Bob Jones isn’t acredited in the first place. > > (BTW, stupid question-what does acredited mean, exactly?) \*\* It basically means that the degrees given from an institution are recognized by some body–the state, perhaps, or maybe some group like say the American Chemical Society for chemistry majors. I’m a little shaky on the details myself, but I know that any employer with any sense won’t go hiring someone for a skill position if their degree is non-accredited. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/9 "2003-02-06T21:57:41Z")
BJ U’s biology department is no weaker than their political science or theology departments. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/10 "2003-02-06T22:02:32Z")
Wow, I didn’t know Bob Jones U. was so out to lunch as to not even deserve accreditation. I’ve known some accreditors and it’s pretty hard to lose college accreditation unless 1) you’re bankrupt or broke, like what’s happening (sadly) to Morris Brown College, 2) you’re brand-new and still getting your act together or 3) your enrollment or full-time faculty level has dropped to the extent that you really can’t say you have a program. Is there any non-credited “university” that gets even 1% of the attention or money as Bob Jones? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/11 "2003-02-06T22:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*:eek: This is being taught at a University!:eek: Oh my…The situation is worse than I feared. \*\* Well, er, the official name notwithstanding, it’s not like it’s a real “university”, not like Princeton or Harvard or the University of Illinois. It’s a liberal arts Bible college, is what it is. Everything is pretty much geared towards the professional Christian ministry. They specialize in training pastors and Christian Ed administrators and teachers who will teach in private Christian schools, not scientists. [http://www.bju.edu/aboutbju/mission/index.xml](http://www.bju.edu/aboutbju/mission/index.xml) > [@](#): > > Mission Statement > > “Within the cultural and academic soil of liberal arts education, Bob Jones University exists to grow Christlike character that is Scripturally disciplined; others-serving; God-loving; Christ-proclaiming; and focused above.” Their science curriculum is just a basic overview of mainstream science. [http://www.bju.edu/academics/](http://www.bju.edu/academics/) The College of Arts and Sciences includes, on the “science” end, Biology, Computer Science, Chemistry, Physics, Electronics, Mathematics, Linguistics, Nursing, something called Family and Consumer Sciences (which is probably Home Ec), and something called General Science. Here are all the Biology courses they offer. [http://www.bju.edu/academics/index.asp?semester=1&school=1&department=16](http://www.bju.edu/academics/index.asp?semester=1&school=1&department=16) In other words, it’s just a basic overview. You don’t go to BJU to get a degree in genetics or biology. You go to BJU to get your teaching certificate, and then you get a job in a private Christian school. You don’t need to know how to teach evolution at the Decatur Christian Academy. And no, BJU is not accredited. Here’s their statement defending it. Personally I find their reasoning specious–“God commands us to be in the world but not of the world, so we cannot allow a secular group to pass judgement on us.” Pah. There are plenty of other liberal arts Bible colleges out there who manage to live in the world and not be of the world and still have themselves accredited so their graduates aren’t S.O.L. in the job market. [http://www.bju.edu/aboutbju/special\_articles/credit.xml](http://www.bju.edu/aboutbju/special_articles/credit.xml) > [@](#): > > An accrediting association is an organization that sets up criteria for judging the quality of training offered by an educational institution, determines the extent to which the institution meets these criteria, and publishes a list of the institutions found to be of acceptable quality. Members voluntarily join and agree to meet the criteria for holding membership as defined by the accrediting association. > > The six regional accrediting associations recognized by the United States Department of Education evaluate a college on such items as educational objectives and outcomes, educational programs, admissions policies, student personnel and welfare services, institutional study, training and experience of the instructional staff, financial stability, and laboratory and library resources. > > \< snip \> > > Christians are commanded in Scripture not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers (II Cor. 6:14). Thus it is impossible for a Christian institution to obey the Lord and voluntarily align itself with an accreditation association where unsaved men and women sit as “peer reviewers” on the purpose, philosophy, objectives, and programs being carried on by the Christian institution. > > \< snip \> > > Yes, you as a parent should be concerned about the accreditation of the Christian college your child plans to attend. Has the institution surrendered itself into the hands of unsaved men and women who will attempt to dictate the manner in which its program is to be carried out? Bob Jones University can justly lay claim to what other educators have termed it, “The World’s Most Unusual University.” So what it means is, if you get a B.A. from BJU, and then you want to get your master’s degree from the University of Illinois, the U of I will not recognize the fact that you already have a B.A., since it’s from a non-accredited school, and they will not allow you to enroll in their Masters program. And you will have trouble finding jobs in the non-Fundie job market. In Illinois, getting a job as a teacher or a school nurse in a public school requires a degree from an accredited institution. Which BJU isn’t. [http://www.academploy.com/cert/certil.htm](http://www.academploy.com/cert/certil.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/12 "2003-02-06T22:13:35Z")
Thought so. Funny, I went to a Christian college\*. But then, according to BJU (ehehehe…BJ???), it’s evil, because it’s a Catholic college. Say what you will about Catholicism, we do take education seriously. (La Roche College) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/13 "2003-02-06T22:34:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*_Thought so. Funny, I went to a Christian college_. But then, according to BJU (ehehehe…BJ???), it’s evil, because it’s a Catholic college. > > Say what you will about Catholicism, we do take education seriously. > (La Roche College) \*\* Especially those Jesuit colleges. I actually considered going to one, but I never followed up on a visit to any. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/14 "2003-02-06T23:00:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, er, the official name notwithstanding, it’s not like it’s a real “university”, not like Princeton or Harvard or the University of Illinois. It’s a liberal arts Bible college, is what it is. Everything is pretty much geared towards the professional Christian ministry. They specialize in training pastors and Christian Ed administrators and teachers who will teach in private Christian schools, not scientists. Thanks **DDG** , to be sure, I didn’t think that they would be accredited-I just thought that an institute that is labeling itself as a “University” would _at least_ be interested in teaching _the truth_ and not subjecting their students to falsehoods. I mean when I think of University, I think of a place of knowledge, not one of deceit. Oh well, I suppose I’m a little more jaded now… On another note; My fiance’s cousin is going to some “Christian” college in Boston (the name escapes me currently). Should I be worried about her not getting a proper education? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/15 "2003-02-06T23:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Meatros_ > On another note; My fiance’s cousin is going to some “Christian” college in Boston (the name escapes me currently). Should I be worried about her not getting a proper education? If you can find out the name of the college, it’s easy enough to check its accreditation online. There are plenty of very good Christian universities (Notre Dame) but there are also some wacky “Bible colleges” (Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson’s Regent U.) which really are just fundie indoctrination camps with no real acdemic merit. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/16 "2003-02-06T23:12:31Z")
Baylor University (not associated with my medical school!) in Waco got into a bunch of doo-doo recently after having a go-round with the intelligent design people. IIRC, they wanted to open an ID center at the school, but after a bit of clamor, the administration came down against it and they ended up using the funding for something else. It upset a lot of people. Baylor is reknowned for being one of the more conservative Baptist schools around, and if they are getting into trouble for espousing ID, then I can imagine other less conservative schools stay right away. I know that their curriculum does include evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/17 "2003-02-06T23:25:57Z")
And then there’s [Patrick Henry College](http://www.phc.edu/news/docs/200211130.asp) (which is having some accreditation issues of its own): > [@](#): > > PHC has contended from the beginning that it allows and welcomes full discussion of opposing views while ultimately teaching that six-day creationism is the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/18 "2003-02-06T23:26:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*If you can find out the name of the college, it’s easy enough to check its accreditation online. There are plenty of very good Christian universities (Notre Dame) but there are also some wacky “Bible colleges” (Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson’s Regent U.) which really are just fundie indoctrination camps with no real acdemic merit. \*\* I talked to my fiance and found out it’s “Eastern Nazarine” college (I think that’s how you spell it). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/19 "2003-02-06T23:55:42Z")
A quick google check shows that [Eastern Nazarene College](http://www.enc.edu/) is fully accredited. I tried digging around to find out about their science curriculum and I couldn’t find anything specific about evolution, but they offer some basic biology courses which seem to be taught by instructors with legitimate PHD’s. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299/20 "2003-02-07T00:00:09Z")
DDG: Do you suppose the Linguistics department at BJU stipulates the Tower of Babel as being an actual event? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-science-textbooks-by-bob-jones-university/153299.md?page=2)