# Creation vs. Evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854 "2003-06-27T21:22:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Artemius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Artemius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Artemius)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/101 "2003-07-01T14:28:46Z")
What about a combination of creationism-evolution (only in terms of humans, not the earth itself)? Just who were the Nephilim and Watchers? Who were those “giants” that inhabited the earth that Genesis refers to? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/102 "2003-07-01T15:02:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minega \* > **was the film A.I any good** no ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/103 "2003-07-01T15:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nomadic\_One \* > **I would like to ask this though as a Christian, to a un-believer of any kind. What besides answering these questions would it take for me to show you to show you Gods love? If there is any way please tell me.** Not saying “HAW HAW HAW you’re all wrong and here’s why” would be a good start. The best example of God’s love I can think of is my girlfriend. Although she believes in God, she never prosletizes, never judges, and never says a bad word about anyone (usually). She doesn’t use God’s love as a threat or as a way to lord superiority over others, she just lives it. She leads by example, not by intimidation. Oh, and there is no question in her mind about two things: 1) God is real, and 2) so is evolution. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/104 "2003-07-01T15:21:06Z")
What does evolution have to do with God’s love, **Nomad**? ---
**Author:** ![Artemius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Artemius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Artemius)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/105 "2003-07-01T15:27:32Z")
\<\\> Is there anyway to make you “see” that what you are referring to as “God’s love” is not external? TDN: You’re one lucky guy. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/106 "2003-07-01T15:41:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Artemius \* > \*\*TDN: > > You’re one lucky guy. \*\* Yep. 😃 Did I mention that she loves naked snuggles and that she takes me to the beach a lot? ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/107 "2003-07-01T15:42:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Artemius \* > \*\*What about a combination of creationism-evolution (only in terms of humans, not the earth itself)? Just who were the Nephilim and Watchers? Who were those “giants” that inhabited the earth that Genesis refers to? \*\* I can’t remember where I heard/read it, but I think the stories of the Nephilim, Lilim and other mythological giants and monsters can be explained by fossils that were found and couldn’t be explained at the time so people came up with the myths of fallen angels and giants interbreeding with humans. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/108 "2003-07-01T15:43:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Artemius \* > \*\*What about a combination of creationism-evolution (only in terms of humans, not the earth itself)? Just who were the Nephilim and Watchers? Who were those “giants” that inhabited the earth that Genesis refers to? \*\* I can’t remember where I heard/read it, but I think the stories of the Nephilim, Lilim and other mythological giants and monsters can be explained by fossils that were found and couldn’t be explained at the time so people came up with the myths of fallen angels and giants interbreeding with humans and animals. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/109 "2003-07-01T15:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nomadic\_One \* > \*\* But as of now I dont know the answers to [Ben’s questions] or how they exactly relate to Creation. > \*\* The phenomena involved make sense as would be expected in something resulting from evolution, but in a design-created life-form the designer/creator would have some explaining to do as to why he put them there. \*\* > [@](#): > > What besides answering these questions would it take for me to show you to show you Gods love? \*\* **andros** and **tdn** beat me to it. What does a creation/evolution debate have to do with God’s Love? God does not discriminate on account that you’re distantly related, across 3 million years in the past, to an australopithecine. ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/110 "2003-07-01T19:19:29Z")
…Tonight was one of those thinking, philisophical nights for me. I think I came up with some conclusions that I had known, just didnt want to admit them. ## Im sorry if I have tried to sound superior in any way. I am a human with normal intelligence, and because of my age probally lesser then most on the board. I realized that the battling with words and trying to prove supurior intellect isnt going to get me anywhere. Even if I knew where I was trying to go. Well Ben I have looked into most of your questions and at this time I have to say I dont know the answers to them. I will continue to look for answers and hopefully find them for you. But as of now I dont know the answers to them or how they exactly relate to Creation. (I’m not the greatest with science) Sometimes you just have to tell the truth without masking it with pretty words and this is one of those times. As for the other science questions I am not exactly sure about them either. I would like to ask this though as a Christian, to a un-believer of any kind. What besides answering these questions would it take for me to show you to show you Gods love? If there is any way please tell me. The only thing I can think of would be to show you God’s love through me to you. Because love is something that doesnt have to be tied in with religion as its tangable for anything, I love my…computer…Saturdays…etc. That is a bit of a feat through a message board, especially one that alot of times has hot issues. But I will try. Again I am sorry and I will continue to look, but I am not into battling words, that might sound a lilttle odd in a religious debate on a “great debate” board but it is true if I have to drag God out into words I would rather not. So please bear with me as I look for answers. I respect you a great deal for a lot of the things you said in your last post, Nomadic\_One. By the same token, however, I see that you still don’t get “it”. Obviously, you feel the need to share your god’s love with other people somehow. Hopefully, you’ve now learned one way not to do this. As for your question, now it sounds like you’re mixing up creationism with theism. Believe me, as an atheist, I am no expert, but I thought they were two different things. And, you’ll never be able to show me god’s love, because you personally will never convince me there is such a thing as god. So you might as well just relax. You’re off the hook. By the same token, even godless heathens like me can believe in love and can actually want the same things as you might, e.g., a better world for everybody. So, forget about proving what a great guy god is and show the world what Nomadic\_One has to offer. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/111 "2003-07-01T23:00:42Z")
tdn The world would be a much better place if there were more people with your girlfriend’s mentality. (And does she have a sister I could meet?) Seriously, she sounds like a wonderful person. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/112 "2003-07-02T00:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolf\_meister \* > \*\*tdn > The world would be a much better place if there were more people with your girlfriend’s mentality. > {snip} > Seriously, she sounds like a wonderful person. \*\* Thanks! She is wonderful. > [@](#): > > **(And does she have a sister I could meet?)** Thanks again. I needed a laugh! Are you talking about the sister calls my girlfriend and screams at the top of her lungs? Who lies and manipulates? Who nearly disowned her gay daughter because of what the neighbors might think? Who is incredibly shallow and matrialistic? The sister for whim Projection is a way of life? Is that the sister of whom you speak? :dubious: Forget about her – she’s married. (Sorry, went off a bit there. Said sister could have been the subject of a Pit rant many a time.) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/113 "2003-07-02T00:23:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*The sister for whim \*\* Sometimes I misspell things on a whum. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/114 "2003-07-02T01:24:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nomadic\_One \* > [B I would like to ask this though as a Christian, to a un-believer of any kind. What besides answering these questions would it take for me to show you to show you Gods love?_\* Why do you want to show us God’s love? ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/115 "2003-07-02T01:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nomadic\_One \* > \*\* Again I am sorry and I will continue to look, \*\* What do you mean when you say, “I will continue to look”? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/116 "2003-07-02T02:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*[T]he way to control the population growth is through the increase of the human mortality rate by legitimate means… through the automatic DEATH PENALTY for the broad spectrum of deeds that are high crimes in the sight of the true GOD…blasphemy against the true God; idolatry; breaking the Lord’s day; dishonor to parents; murder; adultery; incest; homosexuality; bestiality; rape; kidnapping; seeking to destroy the righteous; putting to death the innocent (such as putting innocent embryos and fetuses to death in abortions); seeking to overthrow God’s appointed authority, etc…This principle of controlling the population would positively affect the economic prosperity of nations, positively affect the health and increase the life expectancy of lawabidding citizens, properly educate the human race, positively affect the family structure, overwhelmingly reduce crime, etc. Every legitimate aspect of the human society would benefit greatly." – [Robert T. Lee, “Controlling the World’s Population”](http://www.tencommandments.org/population.html) \*\* That’s got to be one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever had the mispleasure to read. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/117 "2003-07-02T03:03:40Z")
**Nomadic\_One** , for what it’s worth I think you’ve showed some pretty good character in this thread. You haven’t become angry or upset about the responses you’ve received. You haven’t run away and refused to come back. You’ve been honest about where you got your information, you’ve admitted when you were stumped and you made a good faith attempt to find answers to questions rather than hurling insults or sanctimonious platitudes. You’ve behaved with more maturity and intellectual honesty than a lot of people much older than you. You were given some bad information. I don’t think you were “lying” or trying to be deceptive you just trusted some of the typical creationist arguments that routinely get debunked on boards like this. When you’re debating a guy like **Ben** you’re really going to have to make sure you understand what you’re proffering as an argument. The kind of stuff you posted is stuff that we’ve all seen many times before and you’re certainly not going to surprise a molecular biologist with the 2nd law canard. I think you should re-examine your goal here. If your goal is to prove Biblical creationism or disprove evolution, forget it. It can’t be done. All the facts support evolution, believe me. You can’t take a scientific tact to “proving” the existence of God. If your goal is to “share God’s love” that’s a different story. Evolution does not disprove God. The way to share love is to love. It’s really that simple. Faith is in the heart, not the mind. To quote Francis of Assissi, " Preach the Gospel always. If necessary, use words." ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/118 "2003-07-02T04:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BrightNShiny > (concerning evolution violating the 2nd law of thermo)_ > > \*\*This is at best a misunderstanding of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. But given how many times it’s been repeated, I think it’s an outright lie. The 2nd law refers to closed systems, and the Earth is not a closed system. > \*\* A slight nitpick, since this is a personal pet peeve of mine. The [2nd law](http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SecondLawofThermodynamics.html) refers to any system, open or closed. The particular corollary concerning entropy in closed systems doesn’t hold for the Earth as a system, but the [2nd law](http://www.cchem.berkeley.edu/~chem130a/sauer/outline/secondlaw.html#second) is still in effect. Open systems just generally make it more difficult to do the math. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/119 "2003-07-02T05:48:38Z")
Yes, you are correct. Thanks for clearing that up. I certainly don’t want to be spreading any half-truths myself. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854/120 "2003-07-02T06:06:21Z")
The imagination of the “Faith People” proposes that the heavens and the world were formed by GOD. So what was before GOD –just a bunch of nothing? –And so what was before that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creation-vs-evolution/184854.md?page=7)