# Creationism Evidence
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 14, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974 "2007-01-14T20:40:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Cegstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cegstar)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/1 "2007-01-14T20:40:27Z")
According to the Bible:
Heavens(universe)and Earth came first (Genesis 1:1)
Earth was formless(Genesis 1:2)
Water under the sky gathered to one place, and dry ground appeared (Genesis 1:9)
Land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land (Genesis 1:11)
great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems (Genesis 1:21)
Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals,(Genesis 1:24)
Man Came into being (Genesis 1:26)
So tell me does that disagree with the order of history?
Think about us and where we live.
Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/2 "2007-01-14T20:44:32Z")
[_The Creation Memos_](http://marylaine.com/bookbyte/humor.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Geoffrey Atkinson. The Creation Memos. Well you didn’t really think God could have created the universe without dealing with contractors, did you? Or loan officers? Or housing permits? Or patents? And you don’t really think the contractors did everything according to specs first time around, do you? God’s correspondence on these matters is reproduced here.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/3 "2007-01-14T20:59:24Z")
We are using the full potential of our brains, the 10 percent thing is a myth.
> **[Do We Only Use 10% of our Brains?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-ten-percent-myth/)**
>
> Do we really use only ten percent of our brains?
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/4 "2007-01-14T20:59:25Z")
IIRC in the Bible flowering plants came before animals, which scientifically is in reverse order, and doesn’t make sense for plants to spend all that energy to make pretty flowers with no one around to sniff them and carry their pollen.
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### Author:  [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/5 "2007-01-14T21:01:33Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
IIRC in the Bible flowering plants came before animals, which scientifically is in reverse order, and doesn’t make sense for plants to spend all that energy to make pretty flowers with no one around to sniff them and carry their pollen.
[/QUOTE]
Sssshhh! You’ll startle him away if you use things like logic.
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### Author:  [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/6 "2007-01-14T21:01:58Z")
Plus, by the Biblical account, land vegetation (Genesis 1:11) came before life in the sea (Genesis 1:21), which is contradicted by the fossil record and even the hierarchy of organisms today.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/7 "2007-01-14T21:19:21Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar]
According to the Bible:
Heavens(universe)and Earth came first (Genesis 1:1)
Earth was formless(Genesis 1:2)
Water under the sky gathered to one place, and dry ground appeared (Genesis 1:9)
Land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land (Genesis 1:11)
great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems (Genesis 1:21)
Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals,(Genesis 1:24)
Man Came into being (Genesis 1:26)
So tell me does that disagree with the order of history?
[/quote]
For starters, the latest evidence shows that light was first, but Genesis says that the heaven and earth were first. Thing is, many elements that make earth and even our bodies were not here until a Supernova close by exploded eons ago and then the sun and then the earth formed.
> **[Programs-at-a-Glance : EDUCATION : Astronomical Society of the Pacific](https://astrosociety.org/education-outreach/programs.html)**
>
> ASP PROGRAMS AT-A-GLANCE The heart and soul of the ASP’s mission is connecting astronomy to people, connecting people to learning opportunities, and building…
> [@Cegstar](#):
>
> Think about us and where we live.
> Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
Well, Douglas Adams already thought about that and he explained better why it is not really a good idea to ignore probability:
[http://www.biota.org/people/douglasadams/](http://www.biota.org/people/douglasadams/)
> [@](#):
>
> But our early man has a moment to reflect and he thinks to himself, ‘well, this is an interesting world that I find myself in’ and then he asks himself a very treacherous question, a question which is totally meaningless and fallacious, but only comes about because of the nature of the sort of person he is, the sort of person he has evolved into and the sort of person who has thrived because he thinks this particular way. Man the maker looks at his world and says ‘So who made this then?’ Who made this? — you can see why it’s a treacherous question. Early man thinks, ‘Well, because there’s only one sort of being I know about who makes things, whoever made all this must therefore be a much bigger, much more powerful and necessarily invisible, one of me and because I tend to be the strong one who does all the stuff, he’s probably male’. And so we have the idea of a god. Then, because when we make things we do it with the intention of doing something with them, early man asks himself , ‘If he made it, what did he make it for?’ Now the real trap springs, because early man is thinking, ‘This world fits me very well. Here are all these things that support me and feed me and look after me; yes, this world fits me nicely’ and he reaches the inescapable conclusion that whoever made it, made it for him.
>
> This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in—an interesting hole I find myself in—fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/8 "2007-01-14T21:27:36Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar]
Think about us and where we live.
Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
[/QUOTE]
You’re putting the cart before the horse on that. For example, the air is only “breathable” because we evolved to breath it. In fact, the atmosphere was rather different in the distant past, and our speices wouldn’t have been able to survive under the conditions you’d find. Why do you think we see that part of the e/m spectrum that we call visible light? That’s the part of the spectrum that [most easily penetrates our atomsphere.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atmospheric_electromagnetic_transmittance_or_opacity.jpg) Note that the other long-wve length parts of the spectrum that also peneterat easily wouldn’t be much help in resolving objects smaller than a house.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/9 "2007-01-14T21:35:24Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar]
Think about us and where we live.
Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
[/QUOTE]
Oh, this again. Ah well, it’s like Jack Burton always says, “What the hell.” I’ll answer your questions if you’ll answer mine.
> [@](#):
>
> Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life.
Because we haven’t ventured to other star systems and investigated them for signs of intelligent life. Given that intelligent life–in the sometimes questionable form of human civilization–has only existed for a few thousands of years on Earth compared to the approximate 13.7Byr (far less than a percentage point) even if intelligent life developed readily, is it really surprising that we’d don’t find anyone hanging around the same neighborhood at the same time?
> [@](#):
>
> Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons?
Define “perfect gravity”; what’s so perfect about 9.81m/s[sup]2[/sup]? The reason we have “breathable air”, et cetera is that this is the environment we’ve evolved to adapt to. If the air were methane and liquid nitrogen, any existing life would be evolved to breath that. And the uncomfortable and rakish angle of the planet causes much consternation. Why wouldn’t an idyllic world would have a minor to negligable tilt to ensure Garden of Eden like conditions throughout the year with no growing and freezing seasons?
> [@](#):
>
> why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees?
Er, because plants are some of the oldest multicellular land organisms and have evolved to adapt in a variety of ways, each assuring their survival and competitive advantage in their particular environment. Why would some god create such an exhausing variety of foods to eat, many of which can barely be distinguished from their toxic family-mates? Wouldn’t it be easier to have one type of fruit or vegetable that can be easily harvested, is delicious, and provides all required nutrients?
> [@](#):
>
> why is there color?
This is due to something we like to call the [electromagnetic spectrum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum), our ability to distinguish which gives us a superior capability to do things like seperate out toxic fruits from edible ones. (See the previous question.) Why wouldn’t there be color, divine creation or no?
> [@](#):
>
> Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains?
It’s your choice to believe what you want, but appeals to esthetic arguments fail any logical rigor. There’s no indicateion that humans don’t use the “full potential of their brains”, at least not in the sense of the old “using only 10% of our brain capacity” urban legend. The brains to appear to be redundant, which is probably a combination of how they work (like a network rather than a linear action system) and the need to recover from damage and trauma. To speak intelligably about neuroscience, you’re first going to have to read up on the topic; I recommend Ian Glynn’s [_An Anatomy of Thought: The Origin and Machinery of the Mind_](http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Thought-Origin-Machinery-Mind/dp/0195158032/) as a good introductory primer for the intelligent layman.
> [@](#):
>
> Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
You ask these questions based upon what? There’s no indication in natural science–none whatsoever–that we were “meant” to do anything, nor does it seem clear that following any religious protocols or dogma cause you to live significantly longer, become more intelligent, or achieve perfection. Why do you think that we’re supposed to be longer-lived, smarter, or perfect?
Stranger
“It’s like I told my last wife, ‘Honey, I never drive any faster than I can see, and besides, it’s all in the reflexes.’” – Jack Burton
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/10 "2007-01-14T21:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
And the uncomfortable and rakish angle of the planet causes much consternation. Why wouldn’t an idyllic world would have a minor to negligable tilt
[/QUOTE]
So to everything there could be a season.
[sub]turn, turn turn…[/sub]
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### Author:  [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/11 "2007-01-14T21:56:17Z")
Wait, that all makes perfect sense! One thing I don’t understand, what is this “bible” of which you speak?
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/12 "2007-01-14T22:18:09Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar]
Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident.
[/QUOTE]
And this feeling of yours is considered “evidence” of anything?
The alternative to “chance/accident” isn’t “intention;” it’s “cause and effect.” The world we live in, and everything in it, is the result of cause and effect (and by the way, that includes the fact that we have free will).
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/13 "2007-01-14T22:22:39Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim]
We are using the full potential of our brains
[/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself. 😛
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/14 "2007-01-14T22:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar]
According to the Bible:
Heavens(universe)and Earth came first (Genesis 1:1)
Earth was formless(Genesis 1:2)
Water under the sky gathered to one place, and dry ground appeared (Genesis 1:9)
Land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land (Genesis 1:11)
great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems (Genesis 1:21)
Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals,(Genesis 1:24)
Man Came into being (Genesis 1:26)
So tell me does that disagree with the order of history?
[/quote]
Yes, in more than one place. The fossil record strongly supports the fact that:
-Animals existed in the sea BEFORE plants appeared on land.
-Anything remotely resembling a tree or seed bearing plant on land came AFTER 'things that crawl on the ground
-Flying animals (of any kind, not necessarily birds) - although not included in your synopsis, are described by the Bible as appearing before land animals; this is contrary to the fossil record.
> [@](#):
>
> Think about us and where we live.
> Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
If this planet were not suitable for life, you wouldn’t be here complaining about it - you just _wouldn’t be here at all_ - your argument here is analogous to marvelling that humans all have legs that are just the right length to reach the floor.
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### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/15 "2007-01-14T22:43:13Z")
It’s also a little lame to claim that YOUR particular creation story got the basics of “stuff wasn’t created and then it was” especially right when this is an aspect of virtually every creation story, and seems like a pretty basic and inevitable element of any sort of explanation for how the world came to be. The rest is all exactly what any random person would think up thematically. And don’t underestimate the wackiness of the waters part. The people who believed this story really thought that there was literally a body of water up above a dome in the heavens or something like that.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/16 "2007-01-14T22:45:47Z")
Besides “Great Debates,” I think we need another forum named “Lousy Debates” to accomodate posters like **Cegstar.**
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### Author:  [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/17 "2007-01-14T23:04:55Z")
Welcome, Cegstar. Yours is the classic [argument from personal incredulity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance). Simply stated, there is no evidence for creationism, and the inability to imagine how these things could have arisen naturally is not evidence that did not in fact do so.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/18 "2007-01-15T01:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=alterego]
Welcome, Cegstar. Yours is the classic [argument from personal incredulity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance).
[/QUOTE]
Or, to be a little more charitable to **Cegstar** , he is trying to make a [teleological argument](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleological_argument).
Such arguments have been the subject of some great debates throughout the history of philosophy, but at a much more sophisticated level than the OP’s, in both their presentations and their refutations.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/19 "2007-01-15T05:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar]
Think about us and where we live.
Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect?
[/QUOTE]
Well, the people living on Jupiter and Venus wouldn’t agree with you. Wait, there are no people there? (Silly deity). Perhaps that’s because life only evolves on the right planets.
As for the diversity of food, that’s due to a little thing called evolution, which you should read about some time. Live longer? Why does it make sense for us to live beyond the time our children can go on their own. Nice for us, but it doesn’t help the species all that much. Be much smarter? We’re plenty smart already. Be perfect? What exactly does that mean? If we were all perfect for one environment, and it changed, we’d be screwed. Diversity is protection for our species.
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### Author:  [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/20 "2007-01-15T05:22:42Z")
This is beginning to look like a drive-by posting, but **Cegstar** if you’re still lurking on your own thread, a good place to go for information on stuff like this is [http://www.talkorigins.org/](http://www.talkorigins.org/). That is, if you really want to understand the other side.
Oh, and if you do post again, please explain about the two creation stories, using different orders.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974.md?page=2)