# Creationism Evidence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974 "2007-01-14T20:40:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/21 "2007-01-15T06:42:28Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar] According to the Bible: Heavens(universe)and Earth came first (Genesis 1:1) Earth was formless(Genesis 1:2) Water under the sky gathered to one place, and dry ground appeared (Genesis 1:9) Land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land (Genesis 1:11) great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems (Genesis 1:21) Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals,(Genesis 1:24) Man Came into being (Genesis 1:26) So tell me does that disagree with the order of history? [/quote] The very first verse is wrong: Earth is not as old as “the heaven”, but is over nine billion years younger than the Universe as a whole. Various parts of “the heaven” are thus much older than Earth; roughly as old as Earth (the Sun, the other planets in the Solar System); or in some cases much younger (the Pleiades star cluster). Genesis 1:16-19 places the creation of the Sun and Moon after the creation of Earth. In fact, Earth and the Sun formed from the same gas cloud and are about the same age; the current best guess for where the Moon came from is that it was thrown off from Earth by a glancing collision with a Mars-size body some tens of millions of years after Earth’s formation from the nebula which formed the Sun and Solar System. Genesis 1:11-13 places the creation of plant life on Earth before the creation of the Moon (not to mention the creation of the Sun). The origins of existing life on Earth could not possibly have preceded such an event, which would have made the asteroid or cometary impact at the end of the age of the dinosaurs look like a lovely spring day in the park by comparison; if there was any faint spark of life on the planet before the impact that formed the Moon, it would have had to start all over again after Earth’s crust re-solidified from the resultant ocean of molten rock. You also failed to mention that Genesis 1:20-23 has birds appearing contemporaneously with sea life, and before land life, whereas in fact birds are the descendants of terrestrial animals and appeared long after animals colonized the dry land. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/22 "2007-01-15T11:43:53Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] he current best guess for where the Moon came from is that it was thrown off from Earth by a glancing collision with a Mars-size body some tens of millions of years after Earth’s formation from the nebula which formed the Sun and Solar System. [/QUOTE] How could the moon have established a stable(ish) orbit without interacting with some other force then the earth-moon collision? The moon should have either crash landed again or be thrown out of earth’s gravity well. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/23 "2007-01-15T11:49:57Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] How could the moon have established a stable(ish) orbit without interacting with some other force then the earth-moon collision? The moon should have either crash landed again or be thrown out of earth’s gravity well. [/QUOTE] There are people who claim that the moon was ejected whole from the earth (like a pea from a pod), but they’re generally nutcases. I think the mainstream idea is that something smashed into the Earth, ejecting a great deal of material; some of this material ended up in an orbital ring of debris, which coalesced into the moon. It may even be that the collision was so violent that what was left immediately afterwards was not so much as a bunch of debris around a planet, but blobby field of debris that happened to recombine into two bodies instead of one. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/24 "2007-01-15T12:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar] According to the Bible: Heavens(universe)and Earth came first (Genesis 1:1) Earth was formless(Genesis 1:2) Water under the sky gathered to one place, and dry ground appeared (Genesis 1:9) Land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land (Genesis 1:11) great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems (Genesis 1:21) Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals,(Genesis 1:24) Man Came into being (Genesis 1:26) So tell me does that disagree with the order of history? Think about us and where we live. Why are we the only (proven) planet with intelligent life. Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? why do we have such a variety of food, fruit, veg, trees? why is there color? Personally I think this world is much too beautiful to happen by chance/accident. and how come humans cannot use the full potential of their brains? Were we meant live for much longer? Be much smarter? Be perfect? [/QUOTE] You quote the Bible as ‘evidence’. There are many other Creation stories - how do you know this one is true? In particular, both Judaism and Christianity use Genesis. Judaism states that Jesus is not the Son of God; Christianity that he is. Please explain which religion is correct and how you know. (Obviously you are a fundmentalist Protestant Christian, because they are the onpy people who start with the Bible and argue with all the evidence that contradicts the Creationist belief.) As for this planet having ‘breathable air’, what would happen to us if it didn’t? Can you imagine a World with poisonous air? :eek: There would be no-one to marvel at. **Whether we evolved or were created, of course the planet will have ‘breathable air’.** However you might like to explain why your God has so many natural disasters. Why does He regularly have millions killed in volcanic eruptions, tidal waves, earthquakes, tornadoes, forest fires? Is he not a good designer? 😕 Why does your God have so many diseases? Malaria, plague, flu? What purpose do they serve? IS this the best He can do? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/25 "2007-01-15T12:39:21Z")
Well… a plump one like that doesn’t come along very often, and now you’ve gone and spooked him, and he’s gone to ground. I hope you’re all real proud of yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/26 "2007-01-15T15:47:09Z")
Do you really want to hear more from him? I would be prefectly happy without any more drive by religious rantings. I wonder what it would be like if other religions did this in the same manner and attitude that bible thumpers do? What would an incoherent Taoist or Voodoo rant look like? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/27 "2007-01-15T16:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] I wonder what it would be like if other religions did this in the same manner and attitude that bible thumpers do? What would an \*\*incoherent \*\*Taoist or \*\*Voodoo rant \*\*look like? [/QUOTE] Now that I would pay $15 to read. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/28 "2007-01-15T16:37:44Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar] Why does are planet have a practically perfect gravity, breathable air, a precise orbit of the sun and slant to create a balance of seasons? [/QUOTE] I love it when Creationists trot out this argument. “The world _must_ have been made for us! Look how perfectly it keeps us alive!” Well, sure… in an extremely small percentage of the world’s surface. Don’t forget- _most_ of the world’s surface is covered by water… wouldn’t this mean, in fact, that God loves fish much more than he loves us? And don’t forget- in most of the land which is usable by humans, we still need help just to survive there. Ever tried to survive a Canadian winter without technological help? If the world was designed for us, surely we’d be able to use all of it without any help from human invention, right? That’s just the Earth. Compared to the rest of the universe, we’re not even a speck. You’d think God expected us to live off of interstellar hydrogen. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/29 "2007-01-15T16:43:24Z")
I reanimating your dog! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/30 "2007-01-15T16:48:39Z")
I have nothing new to add except a minor POV. If evolution is driven and controlled by the environment, wouldn’t you expect the result to be highly compatible with it? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/31 "2007-01-15T17:33:37Z")
**Stranger On A Train** , would you just stop rubbing your body up against mine, because I can’t concentrate when you do that. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/32 "2007-01-15T17:56:19Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] **Stranger On A Train** , would you just stop rubbing your body up against mine, because I can’t concentrate when you do that. [/QUOTE] “Hey, I’m a reasonable guy. But I’ve just experienced some very unreasonable things.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/33 "2007-01-15T18:10:55Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Stranger On A Train, would you just stop rubbing your body up against mine, because I can’t concentrate when you do that. > [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > “Hey, I’m a reasonable guy. But I’ve just experienced some very unreasonable things.” Did I miss something here? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/34 "2007-01-15T18:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Did I miss something here? [/QUOTE] [“Just remember what ol’ Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big old storm right in the eye and says, ‘Give me your best shot. I can take it.’”](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090728/) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/35 "2007-01-15T18:50:51Z")
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, looks you crooked in the eye and asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol’ Jack Burton always says at a time like that: “Have ya paid your dues, Jack?” “Yessir, the check is in the mail.” ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/36 "2007-01-15T19:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=Cegstar] According to the Bible: Heavens(universe)and Earth came first (Genesis 1:1) Earth was formless(Genesis 1:2) Water under the sky gathered to one place, and dry ground appeared (Genesis 1:9) Land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land (Genesis 1:11) great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems (Genesis 1:21) Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals,(Genesis 1:24) Man Came into being (Genesis 1:26) So tell me does that disagree with the order of history? [/QUOTE] You left out a few impotant details. Genesis 1:11-12: plants are created Genesis 1:14-17: light is created Genesis 1:20-21: sea creatures (including whales) _and_ birds are created Genesis 1:24-25: land creatures are created The only things that sequence got right is that light _did_ come before animals, and that many sea creatures showed up before land creatures (but not whales by a long shot; heck, whales are younger than birds). And then, there’s this: Genesis 2:7: God creates Man Genesis 2:9: God creates plants Genseis 2:19: God creates land animals and birds Genesis 2:22: God creates Woman There’s pretty much _nothing_ about that sequence that agrees with our current understanding, and it doesn’t even agree with the sequence in Genesis 1! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/37 "2007-01-15T19:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=Darwin’s Finch] Genesis 2:7: God creates Man Genesis 2:9: God creates plants Genseis 2:19: God creates land animals and birds Genesis 2:22: God creates Woman [/QUOTE] Well, answer THIS question tough guy: If the Copenhagen Interpretation of QM is correct, you need an observer in order to collapse the waveforms. If the first sapient “observer” happened to be a male, he would be the first ontological entity “created”, followed by the next three things he sees, i.e. a carrot, a frog, and a nearly-human-but-not-quite-sapient girl! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/38 "2007-01-15T19:14:16Z")
[QUOTE=Darwin’s Finch] There’s pretty much _nothing_ about that sequence that agrees with our current understanding, and it doesn’t even agree with the sequence in Genesis 1! [/QUOTE] Between this and the Gospels of the New Testament, it’s pretty easy to see where Kurosawa got his inspiration for [Rashomon](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/39 "2007-01-15T19:53:48Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] I love it when Creationists trot out this argument. “The world _must_ have been made for us! Look how perfectly it keeps us alive!” [/QUOTE] Reminds me of Kirk Cameron saying that the fact that a banana is perfectly suited to fit in a person’s hand is evidence of an Intelligent Designer. :rolleyes: :dubious: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Schuyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Schuyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schuyler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974/40 "2007-01-15T21:29:34Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Reminds me of Kirk Cameron saying that the fact that a banana is perfectly suited to fit in a person’s hand is evidence of an Intelligent Designer. :rolleyes: :dubious: 😃 [/QUOTE] Actually, this is quite correct, except the intelligent designer is us. Bananas, wheat, corn, you name it, virtually all agriculturally-significant cultivated plants are modified or otherwise genetically-engineered (hybridized) versions of native plants. For example, from [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana): > [@](#): > > While the original bananas contained rather large seeds, triploid (and thus seedless) cultivars have been selected for human consumption. These are propagated asexually from offshoots of the plant. So I guess this proves something, but probably not what the folks who trot out these examples intend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationism-evidence/387974.md?page=3)