# Creationist Attempts to Prove the Existence of God / Denial of Evolution \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889 "2012-02-05T20:47:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/261 "2012-02-16T15:44:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You know what test actually counts around here? Making a coherent argument and supporting it. Isn’t that being hypocritical when you post no backing references, and I’m suppose to just accept as facts your blanket statements like “no, the similarities are not striking”? Umm no, that would be an opinion. The onus is on you to produce a scientific experiment proving that two people from completely different cultures will create two stories sharing numerous elements. Apparently this is just a common function of the human brain if I am to believe you. You’ve done a poor job of convincing me that the flood stories have no real common ground. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/262 "2012-02-16T15:45:57Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > You know good and well that this verse isn’t taking about being a physical slave to a lender. You are enslaved financially and emotionally. You know good and well that the Bible was used to justify slavery in the past. By talking about slaves in this and other passages, by not condemning it it condones it. So the easiest interpretation, if we are assuming that the Bible is generally true, is that slavery is okay. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/263 "2012-02-16T15:47:13Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Isn’t that being hypocritical when you post no backing references, and I’m suppose to just accept as facts your blanket statements like “no, the similarities are not striking”? I explained why I don’t think the similarities are striking at all. It was, I think, a pretty sensible argument and it’s one that is better supported by evidence than a global flood. We have similar flood myths from a lot of cultures and the physical and genetic evidence argues very strongly against any worldwide flood, so my explanation seems at least reasonable to me. I already asked this, but if there was a worldwide flood a few thousand years ago, why is there no evidence in plant life and sedimentary rock? Why aren’t all people very closely related, since the world was down to just a handful of people a short time ago? How do you believe this myth traveled all around the world from a single source before language developed? Why is the general similarity in flood myths (which you’ve overstated) so convincing to you that it overcomes all of this? > [@](#): > > The onus is on you to produce a scientific experiment proving that two people from completely different cultures will create two stories sharing numerous elements. There would be no such onus even if such a thing were possible. We’re talking about cultures and history here, not particle physics. Please stop making up tests. It’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/264 "2012-02-16T15:49:49Z")
Wit, so the flood actually happened? It wasn’t just a metaphor? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/265 "2012-02-16T16:12:40Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The onus is on you to produce a scientific experiment proving that two people from completely different cultures will create two stories sharing numerous elements. Here is an[American Indian legend](http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/Coyote_And_Cloud-Achomawi.html) > [@](#): > > Coyote and Cloud ran a race. Cloud bet storm, and Coyote clear weather. They started far away to the south, and for a while Coyote was in the lead. Then Cloud made fruits of all kinds to grow in front of Coyote; and he, looking back and seeing Cloud far behind, stopped to eat. In this way Cloud caught up and won. This is why we have storms in winter-time Which seems markedly similar to Aesop’s Tortoise and the Hare, which is Greek. Your conclusion is that must be the case that at the dawn of man there was a race between a designated fast furry creature and a slower creature, where the slower creature won because the faster creature got overconfident. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/266 "2012-02-16T16:15:40Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Wit, so the flood actually happened? It wasn’t just a metaphor? It was a world-wide flood that only happened over Mesopotamia. And only observed by True Believers. Everyone else was blind to what happened, including the rocks, trees and animals. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/267 "2012-02-16T16:18:42Z")
ETA: that same page has the[flood myth of the Algonquin tribe](http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/AlgonquinFloodMyth-Algonquin.html). It mentions a flood and mention of the failure of the Raven, but otherwise is totally different from Noah (I don’t recall Noah copulating with a Muskrat) > [@](#): > > An Algonquin Legend > > The god Michabo was hunting with his pack of trained wolves one day when he saw the strangest sight, the wolves entered a lake and disappeared. He followed them into the water to fetch them and as he did so, the entire world flooded. > > Michabo then sent forth a raven to find some soil with which to make a new earth, but the bird returned unsuccessful in its quest. > > Then Michabo sent an otter to do the same thing, but again to no avail. > > Finally he sent the muskrat and she brought him back enough earth to begin the reconstruction of the world. The trees had lost their branches in the flood, so Michabo shot magic arrows at them that immediately became new branches covered with leaves. > > Then Michabo married the muskrat and they became the parents of the human race. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/268 "2012-02-16T16:24:17Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Another problem is “facts” can always be distorted to meet any agenda. Relativism alert. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Just for fun, how about a little test. I am not your lab rat to run tests on. If you want my thoughts on something, just respectfully ask. I will then answer your question in a straightforward way. > [@Voodoo1120](#): > > Ok here goes: the bible says God made Adam and Eve, then they had Cane and Abel. Cane was jealous of Abel and killed him out in the field and then went and layed with his wife. Where did his wife come from and who was she? Was his wife his mother? Can anyone explain? It is assumed that Cain’s wife was his sister, and that when it talks about cities, all of the people were children of Adam and Eve. Of course, since incest was inevitable, nothing would stop Eve from getting down with Cain or Seth or her own great-grandkids. They lived for hundreds of years back then, right? :rolleyes: What’s a 30 year age difference between 500 year-olds? Or, if you’re Fox News’ resident priest… [you have no idea what you’re talking about.](http://youtu.be/TgfyVZEHcLQ) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/269 "2012-02-16T16:39:58Z")
> [@dorsk188](#): > > It is assumed that Cain’s wife was his sister, and that when it talks about cities, all of the people were children of Adam and Eve. Of course, since incest was inevitable, nothing would stop Eve from getting down with Cain or Seth or her own great-grandkids. They lived for hundreds of years back then, right? :rolleyes: What’s a 30 year age difference between 500 year-olds? > > Or, if you’re Fox News’ resident priest… [you have no idea what you’re talking about.](http://youtu.be/TgfyVZEHcLQ) If you are looking for the stupidest explanation of this problem, I would have to say that [_this_ FOX guest](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV4m4uHQLU&feature=related) takes the cake. According to this doofus, Adam’s boys married ancient people that existed before God first created Man. Is there a Christian definition of “first” that I’m not finding in the dictionary?? ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/270 "2012-02-16T16:46:37Z")
Maybe I am being a bit harsh. **GEEPERS** , if you want a response to something, please be respectful in the future when you make the request. I’ll go ahead and respond to this as an act of good faith. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Proverbs 22:7 - The rich rules over the poor, > and the borrower is the slave of the lender. The answer is that it depends. Debt is certainly used this way by pay-day lenders, other lenders, and increasingly banks. The rich certainly have much more power in most political systems (though not all). The ideas expressed here are fairly accurate, if not taken to extremes. Polonius told his son: “Neither a borrower nor a lender be”, but that’s just ridiculous. Our society functions on mutually self-interested reciprocity. When I need a house, you help be afford it and you get more money in the long run. It may be possible to structure a society without a concept of money, but no one has ever done it successfully with more than a few dozen people. And if there is money, there needs to be lending and borrowing. Our economy would not function without interest-based loans, most people would not be able to afford a home and instead have to rent forever (which is itself arguably a form of “slavery”), and education might be much harder to acquire. Personally, I tend to like something the vein of the jubilee, from the Hebrew Bible. The idea was that all debts are cancelled after a certain amount of time (I think it may have been a 7-year cycle). That would help alleviate the chronic indebtedness that so negatively impacts the poor. One more note, as **Ludovic** touched on, this passage could be taken as prescriptive. “Rich _should_ rule over the poor. Borrowers _should be_ slaves.” That’s dangerous and horrible. As long as no one is putting that interpretation, then I have no strong objections to it. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/271 "2012-02-16T16:48:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you are looking for the stupidest explanation of this problem, I would have to say that [_this_ FOX guest](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV4m4uHQLU&feature=related) takes the cake. According to this doofus, Adam’s boys married ancient people that existed before God first created Man. Is there a Christian definition of “first” that I’m not finding in the dictionary?? Good call. I forgot about this guy. Yowzah… ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/272 "2012-02-16T16:51:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you are looking for the stupidest explanation of this problem, I would have to say that [_this_ FOX guest](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV4m4uHQLU&feature=related) takes the cake. According to this doofus, Adam’s boys married ancient people that existed before God first created Man. Is there a Christian definition of “first” that I’m not finding in the dictionary?? I haven’t seen this before. I am pretty sure my jaw was hanging open the entire time I was watching this. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/273 "2012-02-16T16:51:42Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > You know good and well that the Bible was used to justify slavery in the past. By talking about slaves in this and other passages, by not condemning it it condones it. So the easiest interpretation, if we are assuming that the Bible is generally true, is that slavery is okay. The Bible does not condone slavery. In fact, God issued a punishment of death if someone did this: “He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Ex. 21:16) At best, you could somewhat make a case for literal translation if the person was required to repay debts through manual labor, not the same as slavery in the modern sense. Regardless, literal or not, the essential truth is there. If you get in debt, you do become enslaved. The more debt you accumulate, the more interest piles up, and it becomes more difficult to regain your finanical freedom. Are you going to argue against reality? Literal or not, Proverbs is warning you to stay away from debt. Yet, we live in an economic system that encourages and even forces you to take on debt if you want a good credit score. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/274 "2012-02-16T16:52:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you are looking for the stupidest explanation of this problem, I would have to say that [_this_ FOX guest](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV4m4uHQLU&feature=related) takes the cake. According to this doofus, Adam’s boys married ancient people that existed before God first created Man. Is there a Christian definition of “first” that I’m not finding in the dictionary?? As long as we’re grasping at straws, wouldn’t mating with aliens get around the biblical prescription? ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/275 "2012-02-16T17:02:22Z")
One last note on this tangent: having read the whole chapter of Proverbs, I think **Ludovic** is probably right, that this _is_ prescriptive. The rest of the verses are heavily prescriptive and it seems like the author is trying to remind the reader that the rich rule over the poor and the borrower is the servant of the lender and justify it. So, context is everything. If you reject that interpretation (good for you), then I can provisionally support the verse cited as accurate, but unfortunate. Incidentally, a few verses down we have: > [@](#): > > **10** Cast out the scoffer, and contention will go out; Yea, strife and ignominy will cease. This is just plain horrible, no interpretation needed. Dissent is bad, apparently. It’s a good thing we nasty atheists don’t follow the Bible, because **GEEPERS** would have been banned a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/276 "2012-02-16T17:07:10Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Literal or not, Proverbs is warning you to stay away from debt. Yet, we live in an economic system that encourages and even forces you to take on debt if you want a good credit score. I’m not sure a listing of advice should count as evidence that a book is divine. Poor Richard’s Almanack is hardly the object of devotion despite these obviously incisive quotes: “Fish and Visitors stink after three days.” “Fine linnen, girls and gold so bright, chuse not to take by candle light” “Industry, Perseverance, & Frugality, make Fortune yield.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/277 "2012-02-16T17:25:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The Bible does not condone slavery. Unfortunately the truth is not that clear-cut. > [@](#): > > In fact, God issued a punishment of death if someone did this: > > “He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Ex. 21:16) That’s kidnapping, not slavery: there is more than one way to acquire slaves, and the only one punished by this law is the kidnapper. Notice that it doesn’t not say the slave should be set free or that the slave-buyer should be punished? The Bible discusses buying and selling people in several places and does not say it’s wrong. In fact there’s a reference to buying a Hebrew slave right there in Exodus 21 : 2. The only instruction is that you have to set him free after six years, and if he doesn’t want to go free, you can mark his ear to show he’s your property. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/278 "2012-02-16T18:21:15Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The Bible does not condone slavery. o rly? \*44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. \* > **[Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 25 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2B25&version=NIV)** > > The Sabbath Year - The LORD said to Moses at Mount Sinai, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD. For six years sow your fields, and for six years... \*2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. 5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life. 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,\*\* he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money. … 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. \* > **[Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2B21&version=NIV)** > > “These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants - “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he... New Testament: \*5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free. 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. \* > **[Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 6 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%2B6&version=NIV)** > > Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.” Fathers, do not exasperate your... \*1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves. \* > **[Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%2B6&version=NIV)** > > All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow... \*47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. \* > **[Bible Gateway passage: Luke 12 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2B12&version=NIV)** > > Warnings and Encouragements - Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is... ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/279 "2012-02-16T18:21:29Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > It would be simple to prove me wrong. Post something Richard Dawkins has said against Christianity that you don’t agree with. Ok, I’ll try a test of my own: > [@](#): > > [A]theism nearly always indicates a healthy independence of mind and, indeed, a healthy mind. I disagree with Dawkins on this. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > The onus is on you to produce a scientific experiment proving that two people from completely different cultures will create two stories sharing numerous elements. I don’t believe an experiment is necessary. Writing in 1914, Otto Rank described the situation very clearly while indicating that the notion that such striking similarities exist was not a new problem. > [@](#): > > The history of the birth and of the early life of [Mythic Heroes] came to be especially invested with fantastic features, which in different nations–even though widely separated by space and entirely independent of each other–present a baffling similarity or, in part, a literal correspondence. Many investigators have long been impressed with this fact, and one of the chief problems of mythological research still consists in the elucidation of the reason for the extensive analogies in the fundamental outlines of mythical tales, which are rendered still more puzzling by the unanimity in certain details and their reappearance in most of the mythical groupings. I can’t say that I buy all of his points, but he does make the case that these similarities arise in part due to the basic functioning of the human imagination: > [@](#): > > A common share in all [Myths] belongs to a single psychic function: the human imagination. It is to this imaginative faculty–of humanity at large rather than of the individual–that the modern myth theory is obliged to concede a high rank, perhaps the first, as the ultimate source of all myths. [The Myth of the Birth of the Hero](http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mbh/mbh01.htm), by Otto Rank, [1914] Proof doesn’t always come in the form of results from an experiment. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889/280 "2012-02-16T20:18:23Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I’m not sure a listing of advice should count as evidence that a book is divine. Poor Richard’s Almanack is hardly the object of devotion despite these obviously incisive quotes: > > “Fish and Visitors stink after three days.” > “Fine linnen, girls and gold so bright, chuse not to take by candle light” > “Industry, Perseverance, & Frugality, make Fortune yield.” Wasn’t presenting it as evidence of divinity. I just wanted to see if an atheist could just for once, one time agree with a Christian or admit that the Bible is true about something. Then perhaps, I could take your argument seriously. The reality is atheists have devoted a lot of time and energy to attack Christianity with an uncanny zeal. Why is that? Now if I subscribed to the atheist way of thinking, I would be out there trying to squeeze every drop of enjoyment from this life since you can simply cease to exist at any second. Poof, you’re gone. Doesn’t make a bit of difference what you do in this lifetime. I certainly wouldn’t be wasting time on a debate forum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-attempts-to-prove-the-existence-of-god-denial-of-evolution-merged-threads/611889.md?page=15)