# Creationist claim that all suppose "pre-human" fossils could fit into a small box **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 30, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-claim-that-all-suppose-pre-human-fossils-could-fit-into-a-small-box/491301 "2009-03-30T14:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-claim-that-all-suppose-pre-human-fossils-could-fit-into-a-small-box/491301/21 "2009-03-31T01:21:57Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Could we have had Evolutionary theory without ANY fossils? I mean, today we could go purely on DNA but fossils provide the timeframe (physical-evidence-wise) that DNA can only provide as interpolations on gene change. It would have taken longer to get there, but we would have still gotten there. As has already been mentioned, adaptation and speciation are already observed phenomena, and selection has long been a known mechanism for change. Genetics not only provide the explanation for how traits are passed, but also show the proof of common descent (for instance, through endogenous retroviral genes). You’re right that we would lack a timeline, and it woould also make pathways much harder to trace, but the basics of heredity, adaptation, speciation and common descent are discernable without fossils. Fossils are very helpful, and were big, honking clues to set us on the right path, but are not absolutely essential. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-claim-that-all-suppose-pre-human-fossils-could-fit-into-a-small-box/491301/22 "2009-03-31T05:47:46Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > The first, most obvious response to this claim is: “What does that have to do with anything?” The average human skeleton today fits in a rather small box. > [@Projammer](#): > > To further expand on his logic, wouldn’t a bible fit in an even smaller box? I think you misunderstand the question. The claim isn’t that any human fossil will fit into a small box. The claim is that if you put every human fossil ever found, all together in one place, they would fit in a small box. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-claim-that-all-suppose-pre-human-fossils-could-fit-into-a-small-box/491301/23 "2009-03-31T07:35:29Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I remember reading a claim by an anti-evolutionist that all supposed “ancient human” fossils (australopithecus, other early hominids) could fit into a very small box. I think that the book was published in the early 1980s. I think I know where this claim comes from. I recall reading something similar in a popular science book from the same era. Only there was a key qualification that either you or your source left out. The qualification was that all the fossils between 4 and 10 million years ago could fit into a small box. I don’t remember exactly where I read this. It may have been in Johanson’s book about Lucy or some other book about paleoanthropology from that era. Anyway, the main point the author was making was that for the key era where chimps and humans diverged, we have virtually no fossil evidence to point exactly when it happened. There was an argument going on at the time about this: those who looked at DNA thought it was more recent (4-5 million years ago) and those who looked at other data thought it was earlier (7-8 million years ago). Note that all numbers above are from memory which has a history of being less than perfect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-claim-that-all-suppose-pre-human-fossils-could-fit-into-a-small-box/491301.md?page=1)