# Creationist Ken Ham calls to end space program because aliens are going to hell anyway **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704 "2014-07-22T00:35:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/21 "2014-07-22T04:53:50Z")
Kirk: “Go to the devil.” Kang: “We have no devil.” Star Trek - “Day of the Dove” ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/22 "2014-07-22T05:01:28Z")
You cannot serve both God and Moon men. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/23 "2014-07-22T05:11:21Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > You cannot serve both God and Moon men. No, you can make it work: Godspacho for the soup course, a master for the salad course, another master for the entrée and Dutch Moon man pie for dessert. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/24 "2014-07-22T05:19:28Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Observe also that he is not saying “who cares if we find intelligent life, because said life would be damned”, but that “said life would be damned, and God wouldn’t do that, so we are unlikely to find it”. Thanks for pointing this out. And note that this makes Ham much more brilliant than many Americans: The number of Americans who believe in the garden of Eden story plus the number who believe in UFO’s with aliens sum to more than 100% which implies some believe both. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/25 "2014-07-22T05:33:56Z")
Maybe there’s a planet where aliens worship Jesus’ kid sister, the “Daughter of God”. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/26 "2014-07-22T06:59:48Z")
He strikes me as the worst kind of Creationist spokesperson - a very very _very_ stupid one. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/27 "2014-07-22T07:44:40Z")
Why, may I ask, does anyone care what Ken Ham thinks? What’s his claim to fame besides being a public idiot? What’s he ever done or contributed to society? He’s a creationist and evangelist. The only way people like that make money is to tell other people who are creationists and evangelicals the things they already believe, and then accept money for it. Why isn’t life that easy for me? Why couldn’t I run around telling scientists that their methods are valid, and then get paid for it? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/28 "2014-07-22T08:49:36Z")
> [@andros](#): > > But…what if we could bring the Gospel to them? [It ends badly, at least according to Harry Harrison.](http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-streets-of-ashkelon/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/29 "2014-07-22T08:51:25Z")
Is there any theological reason why God couldn’t have manifested on multiple worlds? If he came to Earth as Jesus to redeem mankind, why couldn’t he have gone to Tau Ceti as Xzznokr to redeem the reptilians? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/30 "2014-07-22T08:58:58Z")
There’s also the issue of the Americas. Assuming you accept the idea that people need to receive Jesus’ message in order to be saved from Original Sin, then you have to face the fact that God didn’t get the message out to everyone at the same time. People in the Eastern Mediterranean region heard it in the first century. People in the America had to wait almost fifteen centuries before somebody delivered the “good news” to them. So obviously, God is willing to have his message relayed through human avenues to people that needed saving. And that implies that there may be sentient beings on other worlds who are in need of God’s message just as the Americans were. And it’s the duty of Christians to deliver that message to them. A true Christian would be fully supporting SETI and other attempts to contact beings on other worlds in order to get the divine message about Jesus out there to those in need of it. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/31 "2014-07-22T09:35:57Z")
Oh, for the love of V-Ger! Whatever he was TRYING to say, I need to thank this guy for making the buybull phenomenally MORE pointless and proven drivel every time he speaks. Think of it this way: Aliens arrive on our planet, they’re sentient, they even speak English, Spanish, Russian, Italian, Farsi, etc. And here comes this Creo-tard with the story of how the creator of the (then) teeny solar system where the sun revolves around us, our planet is 4,000 years old, children had Pterodactlys as pets, etc. Even though the aliens are fluent in many languages, and might even be as dumb as a Spuds Mackenzie commercial, these extra terrestrials-- and I’m guessing most humans at the time-- would look at Ken Hamm like he’s giving free phrenology lessons. Like he’s approaching people who just found out they won the lottery with time-sharing pamphlets in Haiti. He continually changes his story to it the god gaps like you would have to to prove Snuffalupagus is real. Hey, I wanted that to happen years ago. But as much as you wish… Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/32 "2014-07-22T10:17:17Z")
Anyone can demolish a religious argument by denying the underlying premise of the belief. But it’s more effective to accept the premise and make the argument that this premise does not lead to the offered conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/33 "2014-07-22T10:33:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Anyone can demolish a religious argument by denying the underlying premise of the belief. But it’s more effective to accept the premise and make the argument that this premise does not lead to the offered conclusion. Perhaps, but what I was pointing out was that Creationist beliefs are as important as a record club selections of the month if sentient aliens came about. 40 year journey in the desert? What about the 4 1/2 minute journey made by our new sentient Leatherheads? 😃 Heck, a religion worshipping new extra terrestrials would be more probable than accepting the premise that STILL doesn’t lead to any offered conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/34 "2014-07-22T10:40:03Z")
Let me check I’m fully up-to-speed: Adam and Eve eating an apple curses all of creation. Being descendants of theirs, we all share in this sin, for some reason (this is really quite inconsistent with everything else the church says about “free will” and culpability, but anyway). So God has to become human, and take a beat-down which…for some reason erases that sin. But doesn’t undo the curse. So ETs have neither received, nor require, salvation. But because they would have to live in the same dump of a universe as us, gee, that wouldn’t be fair. It’s only all right for god to be unfair to _humans_ in that way, because we sinned. Although god was supposed to have taken the penance for that. Anyway, in conclusion, ETs necessarily don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/35 "2014-07-22T10:47:45Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/36 "2014-07-22T10:48:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is there any theological reason why God couldn’t have manifested on multiple worlds? If he came to Earth as Jesus to redeem mankind, why couldn’t he have gone to Tau Ceti as Xzznokr to redeem the reptilians? Given that God can be three persons in one being (and that defies analysis), I’d say there’s no reason why the sacrifice of the Messiah couldn’t actually be some universe-wide meta-phenomenon that we only locally perceived in the manifestation of Christ, on Earth. Why not? I mean, also, why, but why not? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/37 "2014-07-22T12:47:25Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Ham is not talking about the space program, nor calling to end the space program, but only talking about SETI. He’s not talking about any one thing. [Let’s go straight to the horse’s mouth](http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2014/07/20/well-find-a-new-earth-within-20-years/): > [@](#): > > I’m shocked at the countless hundreds of millions of dollars that have been spent over the years in the desperate and fruitless search for extraterrestrial life. Even Bill Nye “the Science Guy,” in our recent debate, happily gloated about tax dollars being spent toward this effort. And now, secular scientists are at it again. > > Of course, secularists are desperate to find life in outer space, as they believe that would provide evidence that life can evolve in different locations and given the supposed right conditions! The search for extraterrestrial life is really driven by man’s rebellion against God in a desperate attempt to supposedly prove evolution! > > A UK news site recently reported, “Aliens are out there. We’ll find a new earth within 20 years.” Recent technologies have developed new space telescopes that will be used to study exoplanets (planets orbiting other stars) with the hope of discovering habitable, earth-like worlds that might contain life—at least that is what they hope for! > > You see, according to the secular, evolutionary worldview there must be other habited worlds out there. As the head of NASA, Charles Borden, puts it, “It’s highly improbable in the limitless vastness of the universe that we humans stand alone.” Secularists cannot allow earth to be special or unique—that’s a biblical idea (Isaiah 45:18). If life evolved here, it simply must have evolved elsewhere they believe. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/38 "2014-07-22T13:17:24Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Given that God can be three persons in one being (and that defies analysis), I’d say there’s no reason why the sacrifice of the Messiah couldn’t actually be some universe-wide meta-phenomenon that we only locally perceived in the manifestation of Christ, on Earth. Why not? > > I mean, also, why, but why not? Perhaps the fall of man in the garden of eden was also the fall of all sentient beings in the universe. That’s not going to make us popular in the intergalactic community! ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/39 "2014-07-22T13:29:29Z")
> [@Eureka](#): > > I think Ken Ham is a troll. Maybe not on a message board, but I think he’s saying wacky stuff to get a reaction. And it’s working. Yeah, I just assume he’s a Kaufman-esque performance artist. The alternative is too horrible to ponder. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704/40 "2014-07-22T14:14:08Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > He strikes me as the worst kind of Creationist spokesperson - a very very _very_ stupid one. Sounds to me like an eminently qualified and representative spokesperson for the creationists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-ken-ham-calls-to-end-space-program-because-aliens-are-going-to-hell-anyway/693704.md?page=3)