# Creationist Role-Reversal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524 "2011-12-08T16:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524/121 "2011-12-15T21:04:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Just want to address this via the alternate model. > > If you, perhaps 50 years ago, were able to tap in to today’s advanced technology in your mind. You would have a very hard time to reproduce it today, because you would not have the tools to make such devices with any level of reproducibly or reliability. Also perhaps without complete understanding of how to make materials needed that are commonly made now. > > Though you may be able to make something that could work for a short time, enough for you to see it works though that’s about it. No one else would see it as it is now broken and you don’t and can’t know why. You would appear ‘mad’ as Tesla is described. Though Tesla’s reaction to the advanced discoveries in this model now seems normal. An interesting point here. I published a column by a famous professor friend of mine who found that Tesla had described an AND gate in his writing. That wasn’t something he could build, and wasn’t even useful until Shannon invented digital logic in 1938, but we could look at it and see that he was on to something - when he was. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524/122 "2011-12-15T21:18:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > An interesting point here. I published a column by a famous professor friend of mine who found that Tesla had described an AND gate in his writing. That wasn’t something he could build, and wasn’t even useful until Shannon invented digital logic in 1938, but we could look at it and see that he was on to something - when he was. Would like to also point out Leonardo Devinci in this too. Yes he made some designs that worked using his level of technology, but some of them, such as the flying machines could not be made then, but now can and some have been made. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524/123 "2011-12-15T22:12:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Would like to also point out Leonardo Devinci in this too. Yes he made some designs that worked using his level of technology, but some of them, such as the flying machines could not be made then, but now can and some have been made. Uh, no, while other contraptions were found to be effective later, his flying designs were really ineffective. As pointed out here, they may had worked, if man possessed the same energy and rapidity of action as do those of birds in proportion to their respective weights. [http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/i/Chanute/library/Prog\_Wings\_Nov1891.html](http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/i/Chanute/library/Prog_Wings_Nov1891.html) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524/124 "2011-12-15T22:25:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Would like to also point out Leonardo Devinci in this too. Yes he made some designs that worked using his level of technology, but some of them, such as the flying machines could not be made then, but now can and some have been made. There is an interesting touring exhibition of working machines build from Leonardo’s plans. Including a drum machine. No flying machines, as he said, they wouldn’t have worked. As another example, there are two working models of Babbage’s Difference Engine, and they are working on one of the Analytical Engine. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524/125 "2011-12-15T22:40:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There is an interesting touring exhibition of working machines build from Leonardo’s plans. Including a drum machine. No flying machines, as he said, they wouldn’t have worked. > As another example, there are two working models of Babbage’s Difference Engine, and they are working on one of the Analytical Engine. I thought one of them would have worked given a internal combustion engine, and was constructed and flew - perhaps not. anyway Thinking about what you have posted able being able to falsify the model. I believe that is what I have been doing with the current model, and that is helping come up with that alternate model. In the current model it is just unrealistic and way too easy to dismiss anyone who disagrees with it as ‘mad’ (at which point he is discredited and not listened to) . And perhaps that is exactly what I am exploring, claims that others have dismissed. I believe also that I am seeing ‘evidence’ that they are not mad, but simply reacting normally to the circumstances that they are for some reason in. So in this I find the current model unsatisfactory and am working on the alternate model that I have expressed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-role-reversal/605524.md?page=6)