# Creationist view on Language Development? What language did Adam and Eve speak? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764 "2005-08-19T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/21 "2005-08-19T23:29:49Z")
Old-School Mormonism holds that some words from the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covanants derive from the [Adamic Language](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamic_language) . Adam-ondi-Ahman, an early LDS Missouri settlement, has been variously translated as Adamic “Valley of God Where Adam Dwelt” or “Adam’s Grave” or “Adam with God”. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/22 "2005-08-20T00:01:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Why? Because comparing isolated words from various unrelated languages looking for vaguely similar meanings is not a valid method of doing comparative linguistics. Exactly the same technique has been used to try to prove that Turkish and Dravidian are mothers of all languages, and both of those instances have exactly the same validity as this attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/23 "2005-08-20T16:46:14Z")
There is a book that a scientist (Penrose?) wrote about this very subject, albiet more in the sense of noting that creationists have just as much against the evolution of languages as their do of creatures: it’s just that since language is rarely taught in schools, it’s a less immediate controversy. The Tower of Babel is the Biblical word on the matter of differing languages. Adam, of course, was made with that capacity already, and it’s not clear it’s supposed to matter what that language was called. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/24 "2005-08-20T19:11:18Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Presumably, the language everyone spoke before the Tower of Babel incident. Wasn’t/isn’t that known as **PreBabelFish** \*\*?\*\* ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/25 "2005-08-21T07:32:41Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Oh Lord, no! > > It’s just speculation I’ve heard occasionally by Christians over the years that > perhaps Adam & Eve in their unfallen state could have been in such harmony > with each other & the world around them that they had complete & open mental > communication with each other & maybe even animals. am I to glean from the above that y aoure talking here not of some proto-telepathic neanderthals symbolically rendered as A&E, but of actual created individuals, with names, dicks, pussies, all that stuff? ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2005, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/26 "2005-08-21T09:22:42Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > and there even exist languages (such as Arabic) that maintain more \*\*primitive \*\* Semitic features that Hebrew has lost. Quibble: “primitive?” Older maybe. But I don’t know of any evidence that older languages are more “primitive.” ---
**Author:** ![Lynwood\_Slim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Lynwood\_Slim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynwood_Slim)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/27 "2005-08-22T04:24:02Z")
As has been noted, Hebrew is not the most ancient of Semitic languages. We know Hebrew almost entirely from the Hebrew Bible, and those who know the text well can easily determine older and newer strata of Hebrew. For example, the poems in Ex. 15, Judges 5 and at the end of Deuteronomy show forms of early Hebrew, while the prose of, for example, most of the rest of Deuteronomy is clearly a latter stratum. The morphology of older Hebrew is found regularly in other cognate languages: Phoenician, Canaanite and Ugaritic (some add “proto-Aramaic” to this mix), and in older and less closely related Semitic languages, e.g., Akkadian and Assyrian. The most ancient language of the area that we have records of is Sumerian, but it is not a Semitic language. Sumerian precedes Hebrew by at least 2000 years. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/28 "2005-08-22T15:47:46Z")
Jewish belief is, unsurprisingly, that Adam and Eve spoke Hebrew. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/29 "2005-08-22T16:49:40Z")
How could Adam have spoken anything like an existing language without a third person? He had no-one to talk to except god, and no-one else to talk about. It would be like living with a two dimensional language! And even once Eve came along, why bother with pronouns? There was only one she. Why does she need two nouns all to herself (er, Eveself) ? True, there was two possible “hes”, but you could work out which one according to who was speaking. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/30 "2005-08-22T16:58:12Z")
Fultile Gesture: > [@](#): > > How could Adam have spoken anything like an existing language without a third person? He had no-one to talk to except god, and no-one else to talk about. There were still animals and angels. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/31 "2005-08-22T21:41:58Z")
Don’t forget the reflexive pronouns either! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/32 "2005-08-23T05:43:56Z")
I’ve always found the meaning of sounds more interesting than the meaning of characters strung together. I think phonems hold more of a key to any primal language than characters. Phonems would by their essence of vibration as opposed to straight intellectual meaning would be more “primal”. In studying Kabbalah there is some interesting stuff with Hebrew, and there is something to Hebrew as a deeply encoded language, whether or not it’s the “First” language, I cannot say, but according to some Kabbalists I have spoken to, Hebrew is embedded in our psyche, and we don’t need to learn it as much as “remember” it. Erek ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/33 "2005-08-23T06:01:05Z")
> [@Rachm Qoch](#): > > Old-School Mormonism holds that some words from the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covanants derive from the [Adamic Language](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamic_language) . > > Adam-ondi-Ahman, an early LDS Missouri settlement, has been variously translated as Adamic “Valley of God Where Adam Dwelt” or “Adam’s Grave” or “Adam with God”. Back when I was a Mormon, we used to chant PAY LAY ALE in the secret temple ceremony. [This has been changed](http://helpingmormons.org/compare.htm) > [@](#): > > 1. The chanting of the words, PAY LAY ALE, which temple patrons are told are from the ancient “Adamic language” and mean “Oh God, hear the words of my mouth.” However, in actual Old Testament Hebrew, it may be translated to mean “Marvelous false god!” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/34 "2005-08-23T07:10:42Z")
Since, even from a YEC p.o.v., languages clearly evolve, the best answer is, who knows? Something that evolved into whatever Noah spoke, which got completely corrupted at Babel, & that’s that. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/35 "2005-08-23T11:23:57Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > There is a book that a scientist (Penrose?) wrote about this very subject, albiet more in the sense of noting that creationists have just as much against the evolution of languages as their do of creatures: it’s just that since language is rarely taught in schools, it’s a less immediate controversy. You’re thinking of Robert Pennock’s [_Tower of Babel_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0262661659/qid=1124796505/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3210288-4070436?v=glance&s=books). ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/36 "2005-08-23T16:45:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Quibble: “primitive?” Older maybe. But I don’t know of any evidence that older languages are more “primitive.” I’m using “primitive” in the sense it’s used in linguistics, of “underived”, “unchanged” or “original”, as opposed to the common meaning of “crude” or “unsophisticated”. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/37 "2005-08-23T18:58:37Z")
> [@CJJ\*](#): > > An interesting hijack here. According to [Herodotus](http://www.iranchamber.com/history/herodotus/herodotus_history_book2.php), the Egyptian ruler Psammetichus attempted to determine the most ancient language by taking two children and isolating them from all human language. Otherwise known as “the [forbidden experiment](http://www.feralchildren.com/en/experiment.php).” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/38 "2005-08-23T20:28:36Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > I’m using “primitive” in the sense it’s used in linguistics, of “underived”, “unchanged” or “original”, as opposed to the common meaning of “crude” or “unsophisticated”. Interesting, that. In none of my linguistics courses did the professors use the term primitive. Now, the prefix proto- was used quite often. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/39 "2005-08-24T02:33:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Interesting, that. In none of my linguistics courses did the professors use the term primitive. Now, the prefix proto- was used quite often. Primacy is a common theme in Theology. There are people who believe that Abraham as a more primal man than we are today had much more of a direct contact with God due to that primal state, and as we move farther from that, our relationship is less direct, less primal. Prime also being the fundamental energy from which the firmament is made. Remember a Prime Number can only be divided by itself and One, so numerologically that would describe a direct divine relationship between the individual and the singularity. The only reason I have any believe in the idea of Hebrew is from studying the Sefer Yetzirah, what is triggered by that relationship seems buried deep within my psyche, and I have experienced some of what is described within it personally, like the attainment of “Chokmah” conciousness which is a sort of pure unadulterated flow of Wisdom. Binah is where thought comes in, and where the Sephiroth are displayed for one to understand and create symbols with which to describe the Tree of Life. The concept of Binah is the same as the concept of Binary code, so one could argue that Binary Code is the “Primal language” though Chokmah is even more "Primative, and it can only be experienced, not articulated. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764/40 "2005-08-24T03:30:04Z")
Well, linguistics isn’t theology and your posting has nothing to do with what my professors taught, thankfully. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationist-view-on-language-development-what-language-did-adam-and-eve-speak/317764.md?page=3)