# Creationists in Museums. Two tier America ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524 "2005-09-20T13:36:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/61 "2005-09-21T18:44:15Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The rates of suicides, mental illness, depression, anxiety attacks are high and rising. Science is making claims, but has no cures I know of. God has cures. Science has given us a variety of antidepressent/anti-psychotic drugs that are **very** effective. So, yes–it has given us cures. Ask your physicain about information on this topic, **lekatt**. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/62 "2005-09-21T18:50:13Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have had some experience with this, I know you are not that interested, but it works like this: > > Let’s say you are very thirsty, and God has provided a large tank car full of clear, cool water. It’s free for the taking, but you have to walk up to the tank car and pull down the little lever to get some. People around you may be saying all kinds of things like, “the tank is empty”, “there is no tank”, “it’s all nonsence, don’t fall for it, do as I say”, “only the ignorant do things like that”, etc. > > There is nothing to lose but your thirst, from there it’s all up hill. I highly recommend it for those who are in pain, depressed, troubled. The rates of suicides, mental illness, depression, anxiety attacks are high and rising. Science is making claims, but has no cures I know of. God has cures. Prove that religion cures mental illness. For that matter, prove that religion _isn’t_ a mental illness. Religion is a major cause of tyranny, ruthlessness, murder and violence. The “water” is filled with PCP. To use your own metaphor, you are like someone who who goes to the water tank, fills up a glass with…nothing, then drinks…nothing. Then you proclaim how good the “water” is and look down on eveyone else for not seeing the water. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/63 "2005-09-21T18:58:07Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Science is making claims, but has no cures I know of. God has cures. Well, it’s true that Evolution Theory is not in the Psychiatry business. However, psychiatry, being itself a fledgling science, has come up with some quite effective cures to these problems. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/64 "2005-09-21T18:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > God has cures. And halitosis. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/65 "2005-09-21T19:20:41Z")
Lekatt, that’s not on topic. The fact is that evolution happens. Species evolve. We have observed it happening. We know it happened in the past. There is NO scientific debate over whether or not present life on Earth is the result of evolution. The present debate, the present theories, are regarding HOW evolution occurs, what drives it, and what mechanism it is achieved through. Neither intelligent design nor creationism, both being non-scientific theories based in wishful thinking and Biblical dogma, have anything to say regarding these theories. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/66 "2005-09-21T19:38:18Z")
And God has guys named Pascal who like to bet on things. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/67 "2005-09-21T19:43:09Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > By the way, **lekatt** , I’m fairly sure there’s no such word as “religionists”. There is now. My language is a living language. 😉 > [@UncleBeer](#): > > And halitosis. Which brings up the theological question: Since God is omnipotent, can he make a garlic so strong that not even He can get rid of the smell on His breath? ---
**Author:** ![Enterprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/76d3ee/32.png) [@Enterprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enterprise)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/68 "2005-09-21T19:46:33Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is nothing to lose but your thirst, from there it’s all up hill. I highly recommend it for those who are in pain, depressed, troubled. The rates of suicides, mental illness, depression, anxiety attacks are high and rising. Science is making claims, but has no cures I know of. God has cures. God may _be_ a cure, I have no doubt about that, as least as far as such mental illnesses are concerned. Surveys have frequently shown, as you rightly point out, that believe in God, salvation, or even just phoney medication will raise your chances of beating illness. So, incidentally, will psychotherapy, good friends or medication. I’ll abstain from providing cites for the former since it’s effectively your position and stand ready to provide cites for the latter if you desire them. However, let me cite you something different, that ties in very nicely with your “God has cures” meme: > [@http://www.insecta-inspecta.com/fleas/bdeath/Church.html](#): > > One of the groups that suffered the most was the Christian church. It lost prestige, spiritual authority, and leadership over the people. How? The church promised cures, treatment, and an explanation for the plague. They said it was God’s will, but the reason for this awful punishment was unknown. People wanted answers, but the priests and bishops didn’t have any. The clergy abandoned their Christian duties and fled. People prayed to God and begged for forgiveness. After the plague, ended angry and frustrated villagers started to revolt against the church. The Black Plague, which took about 200 million victims in the course of history according to Wikipedia [(Bubonic Plague)](http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague), is cured today by antibiotics, a form of treatment which is entirely scientific. Did God provide this cure? If you believe in God, in a way, he possibly did; but the fact of the matter is that he let 200 million people die of it before he chose to “act”. Science has done more to better, lengthen, improve, and generally help in the lifes of people than you care to give it credit for. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion, to which I have little to add besides saying that I apologize for the hijack, and that I applaud the museum’s efforts and would, quid pro quo, suggest more people go into creationist meetings and ask “and what about the _scientific evidence_ for that, Reverend?” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/69 "2005-09-21T20:39:29Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > By the way, **lekatt** , I’m fairly sure there’s no such word as “religionists”. [Of course there is.](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=religionist) Let it never be said that **lekatt** is _always_ incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/70 "2005-09-21T20:54:16Z")
Well, of course you damn dictionarios would say so! ---
**Author:** ![yerba\_buena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7ea924/32.png) [@yerba\_buena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yerba_buena)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/71 "2005-09-21T21:00:15Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have never really understood atheists. They believe in no-God and get nothing in return. While people who do believe live longer and happier lives. Why would someone choose nothing over something, when they can’t prove nothing exists. Why would someone choose something over nothing, when they can’t prove something exists? > [@lekatt](#): > > I think you would be better off to fake a believe and get some benefits rather than throw every thing away. What do you have to lose – nothing, that’s what you have to lose. You don’t tithe? You don’t spend time at church? You don’t spend time praying or reading the Bible or visiting those in prison or feeding the hungry or giving alms to the poor or making sure you keep kosher? But you’re right, in the sense that many people feel the same way you do. They spend a minimal time practicing the religion and they spend a lot of time patting themselves on the back for hell insurance (y’know, just in case God actually exists) without really believing that a Higher Power exists. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/72 "2005-09-21T23:52:25Z")
**Der Trihs** – You may find this illuminating. > **[Lekatt, you're an idiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336130)** > > http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335880&page=1&pp=50 I don’t want to put you on “ignore” and I don’t want you to go away. All I ask is that you, for once, remove your head from your rectum, accept that the ideas you... ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/73 "2005-09-22T01:08:38Z")
Just want you to know I am not offended, each slight is forgiven as it is read. I know it is just your way of expressing kindness and showing concern for others. Love to all. Lekatt ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/74 "2005-09-22T01:32:20Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Of course, but the majority seem to be, especially in this region-- home-schooled for religious reasons. Call me prejudiced, but when a home-school group calling themselves The Lifting-Up-Jesus Academy comes, I make an automatic assumption they’ll probably be Creationists. 😉 > > I met one family who were home-schooling but were using a secular cirriculum. (The kid was super-bright.) Very true. I can understand that. I was just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/75 "2005-09-22T01:35:53Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > You people Whoa, dude, if **lekatt** is Black, you are sooo busted. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/76 "2005-09-22T01:58:19Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Whoa, dude, if **lekatt** is Black, you are sooo busted. I was referring to the religious people of the world. Race is irrelevant ( or should be ). And yes, I realized you’re probably joking. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/77 "2005-09-22T02:07:02Z")
Actually, **lekatt** IS right in a sense that God has provided cures (or rather, treatment) for mental illness, if you look at it that scientists and doctors are finding new ways of treating various disorders, and enabling people to live normally without suffering. See, it’s like the joke about the guy who refused all the offers of help saying God will save me, then died and God said, “What the fuck, I sent you boats, helicoptors, etc.” Well, maybe, just MAYBE, God sent me those scientists who created Paxil and therapy. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/78 "2005-09-22T02:38:23Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t have the time to keep my part of this debate going. If you truly believe science has disproved the existence of God, and religion is just superstitious nonsense you have ignored a great deal of real evidence to the contrary. > > I have never really understood atheists. They believe in no-God and get nothing in return. While people who do believe live longer and happier lives. Why would someone choose nothing over something, when they can’t prove nothing exists. > > Yes, I understand what I wrote. I think you would be better off to fake a believe and get some benefits rather than throw every thing away. What do you have to lose – nothing, that’s what you have to lose. Ludicrous argument isn’t it. This has to be a woosh. Has to be. People with your “rationale” can’t possibly exist. There’s never been a more fitting time for me to take the Lord’s name in vain: Jesus Christ, I’m terrified of the fact that you might not be joking. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/79 "2005-09-22T03:06:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, maybe, just MAYBE, God sent me those scientists who created Paxil and therapy. Or, as I’ve seen it also put, God may work in mysterious ways, but he doesn’t HAVE to… ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524/80 "2005-09-22T03:11:46Z")
> [@Lekatt](#): > > You can’t find the truth by bully the opposition into believing as you do. So what were the Crusades all about? What were the Inquisitions all about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creationists-in-museums-two-tier-america/322524.md?page=5)