# Creator laments creation of die Antibabypille **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575 "2009-01-09T20:06:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/1 "2009-01-09T20:06:01Z")
[http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/09010806.html](http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/09010806.html) > [@](#): > > VIENNA, January 8, 2009 ([LifeSiteNews.com](http://LifeSiteNews.com)) - An Austrian chemist who helped spearhead the creation of the earliest contraceptive pill has expressed dismay at the severance of sexuality and reproduction made possible by widespread use of the pill, and has warned against the impending demographic disaster from plummeting birth rates. > > Carl Djerassi wrote of his concern in a commentary appearing in the December issue of Austria’s Der Standard, where he described couples who regularly contracept as “wanting to enjoy their schnitzels while leaving the rest of the world to get on with it.” > > Djerassi, who is a chemist, novelist, and playwright, is best known for helping create the synthetic hormone progestin norethindrone in 1951, together with Mexican Luis E. Miramontes and Hungarian George Rosenkranz. The far more potent synthetic hormone was soon used for contraceptive purposes as it remains effective when taken orally, unlike natural female hormones. > > At the time, Djerassi had said that “not in our wildest dreams” had he expected the chemical to be used for contraception. Now, he writes, “My contribution is to help these people wake up,” referring to Austrian couples who freely contracept. > > Lamenting that there is now “no connection at all between sexuality and reproduction,” Djerassi said, “This divide in Catholic Austria, a country which has on average 1.4 children per family, is now complete. Most Austrians enjoy sexual intercourse without thereby wanting or begetting a child.” > > Djerassi explained that Austria, which is now home to more seniors over 65 than children under 15, would soon enter “an impossible situation” as the lopsided population would result in a working class too small to support the needs of elderly pensioners. I am not really coming out on any side of this debate, but I figured a thread about birth control would inevitably lead to a debate. If I am wrong please feel free to move it as appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/2 "2009-01-09T20:10:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Most Austrians **enjoy** sexual intercourse without thereby wanting or begetting a child. (my bolding) I think that this is actually Mr. Djerassi’s main problem here. I don’t think he’s worried about a declining population - he just does not like the thought of people enjoying sex. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/3 "2009-01-09T20:14:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think that this is actually Mr. Djerassi’s main problem here. I don’t think he’s worried about a declining population - he just does not like the thought of people enjoying sex. That’s sure what it sounds like to me too. Otherwise he is arguing that unwanted babies = good thing so they can support old people. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/4 "2009-01-09T20:15:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think that this is actually Mr. Djerassi’s main problem here. I don’t think he’s worried about a declining population - he just does not like the thought of people enjoying sex. Yes; it sounds like the good-old-fashioned Christian “fun is bad” attitude to me. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/5 "2009-01-09T20:18:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think that this is actually Mr. Djerassi’s main problem here. I don’t think he’s worried about a declining population - he just does not like the thought of people enjoying sex. I’ve gotten the impression that some white Europeans are concerned that the number of white babies is declining, especially when compared to the number of immigrant babies. Could be a touch of racism in his concern. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/6 "2009-01-09T20:18:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Djerassi explained that Austria, which is now home to more seniors over 65 than children under 15, would soon enter “an impossible situation” as the lopsided population would result in a working class too small to support the needs of elderly pensioners. Well duh. Austria’s life expectancy is now 79.45 years. Or just about 15 years past Djerassi’s 65 year old cut off age. So the problem isn’t a lack of young people, it’s to many old people. Wonder if he would be happier if the life expectancy was shorter? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/7 "2009-01-09T20:44:10Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’ve gotten the impression that some white Europeans are concerned that the number of white babies is declining, especially when compared to the number of immigrant babies. Could be a touch of racism in his concern. I got this message as well while reading those quotes. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/8 "2009-01-09T20:50:50Z")
If he’s upset that people are doing it without worrying about having kids, why the hell did he invent it in the first place? This seems akin to the Wright brothers complaining about rapid interstate travel. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/9 "2009-01-09T20:57:34Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > , why the hell did he invent it in the first place? . He invented a synthetic hormone, he didn’t invent (or if his claims now are accurate, intend/plan on) the use to which it was put. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/10 "2009-01-09T21:02:06Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’ve gotten the impression that some white Europeans are concerned that the number of white babies is declining… Well, 1 out of every 4 babies born is Chinese. The European couples are just hoping they don’t get one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/11 "2009-01-09T21:04:49Z")
Not to be dismissive or ageist, but it seems to me this is the kind of regret older people are prone to having, and you can see it in a lot of different cultural areas. When they or their generation did something, it was okay, but now that it’s commonplace or once someone else is doing it, they’re uncomfortable with it. Common kind of hypocrisy as far as I’m concerned and not one worth paying attention to. Doesn’t affect the abortion debate either; “Norma Roe” has been a pro-life activist for quite a while and nobody gives a damn. > [@Deeg](#): > > I’ve gotten the impression that some white Europeans are concerned that the number of white babies is declining, especially when compared to the number of immigrant babies. Could be a touch of racism in his concern. It’s not “a touch,” to my eyes it’s really blatant. There’s been a lot of nonwhite, primarily Muslim immigration to Europe in recent years and you can see clearly that some older people - and maybe younger ones too - are very unhappy about it. (Terrorism inflamed all of the tensions dramatically, of course.) The population many of those countries is declining, so lately they’ve been getting a lot less white and a lot more Muslim in a hurry. There’s been a backlash. France passed its headscarf ban, and also had those riots in 2005, Austria elected Jorg Haider… there’s a significant amount of nationalism in a lot of places. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/12 "2009-01-09T21:07:54Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Well, 1 out of every 4 babies born is Chinese. The European couples are just hoping they don’t get one of them. Which is understandable. I’m not sure you’d be happy with a child who can’t understand your language. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/13 "2009-01-09T21:15:29Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’ve gotten the impression that some white Europeans are concerned that the number of white babies is declining, especially when compared to the number of immigrant babies. Could be a touch of racism in his concern. Could be, but there’s no reason to assume so, since his arguments are clearly stated : there’s something wrong with people having sex without wanting babies (a widespread concern amongst christians) and that there aren’t enough babies. There isn’t the slightest reference to immigrants or to the colour of the babies. There’s no reason to arbitrarily inject racism in his discourse. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/14 "2009-01-09T21:27:31Z")
Low birth rates and increasing lifespan _do_ create economic problems for a country, so racism isn’t the only reason a person would complain about this. But apart from that, I get the sense that Djerassi wants sex and reproduction to be connected for philosophical reasons. Anyway, the fact that he invented the chemical doesn’t really have any importance in a debate over contraception. We routinely use inventions for purposes not envisioned by their creators. It’s not the least bit wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/15 "2009-01-09T21:31:45Z")
The world’s population is growing at about 200,000 per day! Is that not enough? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/16 "2009-01-09T21:51:35Z")
Attitudes like this strike me as being very anti both sex and children. He seems to be saying that on the one hand, freedom from the risk of pregnancy encourages people to go out there and have sex without consequences. But on the other hand, contraception is linked to a declining birth rate, implying that people will avoid having children if they can, and therefore should be made to bear the risk of pregnancy if they want to have nookie. It’s a very depressing overall viewpoint. Rather than attempting to deal with a declining birthrate by family friendly policies, or other methods, or attempting to educate people regarding sexuality issues, it instead stresses that the only way people will have children is by risking it for a quick lay, and that pregnancy should be a potential punishment for having that sex. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/17 "2009-01-09T21:52:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Which is understandable. I’m not sure you’d be happy with a child who can’t understand your language. And likes really strange food. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/18 "2009-01-09T22:10:00Z")
I don’t see anything inherently wrong with wanting to preserve one’s culture and ethnicity. For me, it’s analagous to the same conservation urge which makes many people concerned about the possibility of, for example, polar bears being interbred out of existence by brown bears. From that perspective, a fertility rate of 1.4 for a particular group is a serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/19 "2009-01-09T22:14:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > (my bolding) > > I think that this is actually Mr. Djerassi’s main problem here. I don’t think he’s worried about a declining population - he just does not like the thought of people enjoying sex. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575/20 "2009-01-09T22:22:52Z")
It’s interesting how ignorant of basic demographic issues this entire forum is. Every demographic concern is treated as some sort of bigotry. Really the ideology is from the other direction. ‘I should be able to fuck for fun and you can’t stop me!’, of course the same people saying this will have no problem voting to have my kids forced to support them in their old age via Social Security and Medicare etc… The all important right to enjoy sex unfettered is the only concern, and all other demographic concerns are dismissed. The idea of a creaking and aged population is actually a real and serious issue as social welfare programs depend on the working population being at some sort of optimal ratio as compared to those not working. So when your penises no longer work and you have long since passed menopause you’ll have to work much later into life than your parents to ensure that the working population maintains a rational ratio. Of course we might become much more comfortable with eugenics when you’re older. Maybe I’ll set my daughter up with a designer ice floe business. It’s also interesting how everyone sheds crocodile tears for the loss of the indigenous culture of wherever, but the plain fact that the Austrian and other Germanic cultures are disappearing before our eyes by being far below replacement rate is a thing only racists care about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creator-laments-creation-of-die-antibabypille/480575.md?page=2)