# Credibility of the Hollywood Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983 "2002-12-11T11:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/41 "2002-12-11T19:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*Hey lib, I got a question for you: Have you ever heard of a self-proclaimed Libertarian voting Democrat? \*\* Yes, actually, I do sometimes. I vote straight party Libertarian, but when there is no Libertarian candidate, and I do not know the person on the ballot, I vote Democrat for positions like judge or attorney general, and Republican for positions like tax assessor or state treasurer. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/42 "2002-12-11T19:37:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Gah. Why did you include a libertarian in a pile of conservatives? Because the list I was citing included him. I even put in the libertarian disclaimer just for you, so you wouldn’t think I was lumping a libertarian in with the Republicans. But if you don’t want libertarians included as conservatives, we can remove him (and Clint too). Of course, by **Susanann’s** standards, anyone who strongly supports the Second Amendment is a conservative by default. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/43 "2002-12-11T19:38:04Z")
Given how hard Costner worked to make a (terrible) movie of David Brin’s (very good) SF novel, _The Postman_, it’s hard to buy Costner as a conservative. Brin is fundamentally a communitarian liberal, and the book is very much a reflection of a communitarian philosophy. I don’t see why it’s such a big deal that Hollywood stars are mostly liberal. Nobody makes a big deal about jocks, at least white jocks, being mostly conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/44 "2002-12-11T19:39:22Z")
I’m about to blow SusanAnn’s mind: I am a liberal. And I support the Second Amendment. (_sniff_ Do I smell neurons melting?) “Anti-freedom?” Hollywood? What is the position of Hollywood liberals on decriminalization of marijuana, do you suppose? And the “conservative” Administration’s position on same? And which position is more pro-freedom, would you say? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/45 "2002-12-11T19:39:47Z")
Well, don’t look at things as a straight pole with opposite ends-it’s more like a square-top would be authoritarian, bottom libertarian. Right would be conservative, left would be liberal. So fascism is typically on the upper right, while communism would be on the upper left. That doesn’t mean they don’t have things in common-they do, it’s just t heir approach or ideals are different. (and if I have to sit through one more lecture about how Hitler was really a communist and/or leftist, I’m going to scream.) Hey, us leftists admit that we have Lenin and Stalin, why don’t you guys be nice and take Hitler and Mussolini? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/46 "2002-12-11T19:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpoilerVirgin \* > \*\*Because the list I was citing included him. I even put in the libertarian disclaimer just for you, so you wouldn’t think I was lumping a libertarian in with the Republicans. But if you don’t want libertarians included as conservatives, we can remove him (and Clint too). Of course, by **Susanann’s** standards, anyone who strongly supports the Second Amendment is a conservative by default. \*\* I should have suspected the best rather than the worst. How gracious of you to go out of your way for me! 🙂 Thank you, and I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/47 "2002-12-11T19:47:23Z")
Guin: It’s kind of a whole interesting though. Fascism is extreme leftism. Fascists are Socialists just like communists. Nowadays though neo-nazis are identified and seem to identify themselves as wing. Fascism though is quite the combination of private profiteering, totalitarianism, and socialistic control. The fact is that if we bred Pat Buchanan with Barbara Streisand we’d end up with fascists. So, while technically and historically leftist, fascism doesn’t really belong in either camp, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/48 "2002-12-11T19:51:45Z")
Not from what I learned in college. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/49 "2002-12-11T19:57:45Z")
Fascists often use the power of government to protect the wealthy, and to quell uprisings by the poor and disenfranchised. (See Franco’s Spain, and any number of fascistic Latin American dictatorships.) It frequently appeals to bigotry. Communists use the power of government to unseat the wealthy. It appeals to envy. Fascism is a disease of the right, Communism a disease of the left. Anyone wishing to debate this further really ought to open a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/50 "2002-12-11T19:59:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*I’m about to blow SusanAnn’s mind: > > I am a liberal. > > And I support the Second Amendment. > > \*\* I do, too, \*\* spoke, \*\* I just understand it to mean something different than the NRA does. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/51 "2002-12-11T20:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Not from what I learned in college. \*\* OK then. Here’s Benito himself on fascism: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html) ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/52 "2002-12-11T20:01:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*(and if I have to sit through one more lecture about how Hitler was really a communist and/or leftist, I’m going to scream.) Hey, us leftists admit that we have Lenin and Stalin, why don’t you guys be nice and take Hitler and Mussolini? 😉 \*\* Because Adolph Hitler was the most famous “leftist” of all. He is yours, not ours. FYI, Adolph Hitler was, in fact, the leader of the National SOCIALIST party(Nazi for short) in Germany in the first part of the 20th century . Even Hitler called himself a socialist. His ideas and proposals were all socialist, from gun control, to social security, to day care centers, highway projects, medical care, housing, etc. Hitler was not so much a communist, as he was a socialist. Hitler did not “nationalize” all private industry, and he did not outlaw private property, rather, he let Mercedes Benz and others continue to own their own factories. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/53 "2002-12-11T20:04:04Z")
Where did the extermination of inferior races fit into his liberal philosophy? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/54 "2002-12-11T20:05:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cainxinth \* > \*\*Where did the extermination of inferior races fit into his liberal philosophy? \*\* Call it genetic environmentalism. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/55 "2002-12-11T20:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpoilerVirgin \* > \*\* Of course, by **Susanann’s** standards, anyone who strongly supports the Second Amendment is a conservative by default. \*\* Where I come from, conservatives believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Do you have a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/56 "2002-12-11T20:09:49Z")
I call it insane. Hitler was no less a liberal than Ted Kazinsky was a libertarian. Extremists are their own breed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/57 "2002-12-11T20:13:01Z")
Getting back to the celebrity topic… Aren’t there a ton of country singers who espouse conservative values. Is Wynona Judd some sort of sage that we all need to listen to? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/58 "2002-12-11T20:13:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpoilerVirgin \* > \*\*Rick Schroder spoke at the 2000 Republican Convention in honor of George W. Bush. And just for **Susanann** , he’s also a member of the N.R.A. > > . \*\* Wow! Thanks for the info, he must be a good guy then. Yeah, and Ted Nugent and Fred Thompson are defintely good guys too. So too with Drew Carey.(although sometimes it is hard to think of Fred Thompson as being a good guy after seeing him in the movie: Race With the Devil) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/59 "2002-12-11T20:14:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Where I come from, conservatives believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Do you have a problem with that? \*\* Really? A lot of conservatives I know seem to have a problem with the 4th Amendment, and for that matter, some quibbles with the 1st Amendment and the 8th Amendment. They tend to ignore the 9th Amendment altogether, since it interferes with their “strict constructionist” approach to Constitutional issues. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/60 "2002-12-11T20:15:50Z")
**Susanann** , would you PLEASE offer up a CITE for all of your statements? And the Hitler is a leftist is another debate. Start a new thread for that. I’M NOT GOING THERE IN THIS THREAD! > [@](#): > > Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, Sorry, **Scylla** , what I got was the total opposite of what you got. I’m not saying that old Benito didn’t get some socialist concepts, but he’s not what one would call a leftist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983.md?page=4)