# Credibility of the Hollywood Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983 "2002-12-11T11:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/61 "2002-12-11T20:18:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Getting back to the celebrity topic… > > Aren’t there a ton of country singers who espouse conservative values. Is Wynona Judd some sort of sage that we all need to listen to? \*\* Yeah, there is a ton of conservative country singers, Lorretta Lynn being the most famous , followed by Reba McIntire, Terri Clark, Shania Twain, and hundreds more. Elvis was also a conservative and started out as a country singer. A country singer would have a very hard time selling records in good ole boy country if he was a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/62 "2002-12-11T20:18:47Z")
**Susanann** replied to **SpoilerVirgin:** \*“Rick Schroder spoke at the 2000 Republican Convention in honor of George W. Bush. And just for Susanann, he’s also a member of the N.R.A.” Wow! Thanks for the info, he must be a good guy then.\* Even better news, **Susanann** : filmmaker Michael Moore, being a **life** member of the N.R.A., must be a good guy too! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/63 "2002-12-11T20:26:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Where I come from, conservatives believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. \*\* Where I come from, liberals believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and it is pretty much liberals that populate the only prominent national organization devoted to protecting those rights, the ACLU. Do you have a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/64 "2002-12-11T20:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Really? A lot of conservatives I know seem to have a problem with the 4th Amendment, and for that matter, some quibbles with the 1st Amendment and the 8th Amendment. They tend to ignore the 9th Amendment altogether, since it interferes with their “strict constructionist” approach to Constitutional issues. \*\* Sorry. Then they must be different kinds of conservatives, we all strictly believe in the Constitution, and all 10 of the Bill of Rights, including the 1st, 4th, 8th, and 9th. I dont know what your strict constructionists think, but we do know what the founding fathers thought, and we agree with them. Are you saying those who agree with the ideas of George Washington, and his buddies, are not conservatives? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/65 "2002-12-11T20:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cainxinth \* > \*\*I call it insane. Hitler was no less a liberal than Ted Kazinsky was a libertarian. Extremists are their own breed. \*\* I agree. The origins of their ideology are purely academic. I certainly don’t equate liberalism with Naziism. Please see my point of view. I was merely correcting Stoid’s ignorant and insulting statement that Naziism was simply extreme right wing philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/66 "2002-12-11T20:31:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kimstu \* > Even better news, **Susanann** : filmmaker Michael Moore, being a **life** member of the N.R.A., must be a good guy too! You know, I almost included Michael Moore on my list as an N.R.A. member, but I didn’t want to muddy the waters any further. **Susanann** , I’d still like an answer to the question I asked earlier: > [@](#): > > Is a position on the Second Amendment the only way to identify a conservative? What if someone shared the standard Republican positions on defense, the economy, education, abortion, and civil rights, but supported some form of gun control? Would that automatically [make] him a liberal? I’ll add the opposite – suppose someone is a firm supporter of the Second Amendment and gun rights, but holds otherwise liberal positions – is that person a conservative? And I’m using “Second Amendment supporter” here to mean someone who shares **Susanann’s** interpretation of that amendment. I firmly support the Constitution, but I doubt that Susanann and I interpret all of its language in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/67 "2002-12-11T20:33:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*Where I come from, liberals believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and it is pretty much liberals that populate the only prominent national organization devoted to protecting those rights, the ACLU. Do you have a problem with that? \*\* Sorry, but yes I do. The ACLU does not believe in, and has no understanding of, the 2nd, 9th, or 10th ammendments. I dont know of any liberals today who believe in the constitution,and the bill of rights, except for those few who call themselves “Jeffersonian liberals”. I have no problem with the Jeffersonian liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/68 "2002-12-11T20:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Where I come from, conservatives believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Do you have a problem with that? \*\* Me too! That’s why I am a member of the ACLU! Card-carrying no less! Want to join? It has always been my opinion that actors who have identified themselves as conservatives tended to be those who were less, um, gifted with the ability to emote, or convey a convincing range of feelings and thoughts. Others from my mental list of righty thespians that I have not seen here include Scott Baio and James Woods (sorry if they have been mentioned and I missed them). The only one I have seen listed today who goes against my little heuristic is Jimmy Stewart, which I hadn’t heard before, and which makes me sad. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/69 "2002-12-11T20:34:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > Sorry, **Scylla** , what I got was the total opposite of what you got. > > I’m not saying that old Benito didn’t get some socialist concepts, but he’s not what one would call a leftist. \*\* No, but Benito was a former Socialist, and fascism is bred of Socialist philosophy. It’s an offshoot of socialism which is generally left of center. FWIW: I wouldn’t call Benito a leftist either, I’d call him a totalitarionist. Fascism seems nothing more than a cover story for totalitarianism to me. I certainly wouldn’t call totalitarianism a leftist philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/70 "2002-12-11T20:35:07Z")
**Scylla** , that IS the prevalent thought among most credible scholars-that Hitler was an extreme RIGHT wing. I was a history major, and that was what we were taught. And NOT by leftist commie professors, either. I’m not trying to be nasty, but most of those who say otherwise are usually, um, “Free Republic” types. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/71 "2002-12-11T20:36:51Z")
Of course totalitarian isn’t leftist, or rightist. But most of us historians classify fascism on the right. ---
**Author:** ![Jaakko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@Jaakko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaakko)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/72 "2002-12-11T20:37:44Z")
The two axis system on the Libertarian party website works pretty well in the fascists vs. communists debate, ie. fascists are right-authoritarian and the communists left-authoritarian, where left and right indicate economic policies. But historically fascists are definitely right wing. Common usage of the terms alone should be enough proof of that. The strongest identifier for the fascists was their “traditional” social principles and opposition of the communists main ideals, which were overwhelmingly about the reversal of all economic roles and policies. The identification is so strong that apart from a small (?) minority of people in the US, telling someone that the are nazis lefties is just going to get you laughed at. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/73 "2002-12-11T20:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\ ***Scylla** , that IS the prevalent thought among most credible scholars-that Hitler was an extreme RIGHT wing. I was a history major, and that was what we were taught. And NOT by leftist commie professors, either. I’m not trying to be nasty, but most of those who say otherwise are usually, um, “Free Republic” types. \*\* [/QUOTE] We’re being polite Guin, and this is interesting. How about another thread? ---
**Author:** ![Jaakko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@Jaakko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaakko)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/74 "2002-12-11T20:39:44Z")
Always preview, **always preview** …:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/75 "2002-12-11T20:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kimstu \* > \*\ ***Susanann** replied to **SpoilerVirgin:** \*“Rick Schroder spoke at the 2000 Republican Convention in honor of George W. Bush. And just for Susanann, he’s also a member of the N.R.A.” > > Wow! Thanks for the info, he must be a good guy then.\* > > Even better news, **Susanann** : filmmaker Michael Moore, being a **life** member of the N.R.A., must be a good guy too! \*\* Sorry, but no. I have heard of Micheal Moores latest film, and it is clear that he has no understanding of guns, nor the causes of crime/murder. He may or may not be a good guy, but his apparent total lack of understanding of crime and guns make his sincere membership in a Second Amendment society very suspect. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/76 "2002-12-11T20:46:42Z")
☹ **Hentor** , am I correct, did you just imply that _my favorite actor_, James Woods, has no talent? Whatever his political views are, them’s fightin’ words! I suggest you immediately rent _The Promise_, _True Believer_, and _Ghosts of Mississippi_ to see him conveying a range of emotions sufficient to earn him two Emmy Awards and two Oscar nominations. And I don’t want to hear anything bad about Rick Schroder, either! This is why I should stick to Cafe Society and keep my nose out of Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/77 "2002-12-11T20:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpoilerVirgin \* > \*\* > And I’m using “Second Amendment supporter” here to mean someone who shares **Susanann’s** interpretation of that amendment. I firmly support the Constitution, but I doubt that Susanann and I interpret all of its language in the same way. \*\* I interpret the Second Amendment in EXACTLY the same way that Sam Addams, John Addams, George Washington, Tom Jefferson, Al Hamilton, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine, George Mason, Richard Henry Lee, James Madison, Tench Coxe, Azchariah Johnson, etc interpreted it. Their writings, letters, debates, arguements, and thoughts are extensive and clear on that ammendment. The entire constitution was debated and discussed by all, and the writings of the founding fathers take up an entire wall. 40 huge volumes by Addams, 36 by Mason, etc etc, etc, hundreds of thousands of debates, letters, discussions, journals, diaries, etc. Go to any government depository library and you can see for yourself what each part of the constitution meant. (I seriously doubt any on todays Supreme Court- except for maybe Clarance Thomas, has read as much on what the Constitution means as much as I have, or what you can read for yourself) ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/78 "2002-12-11T20:57:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > **(I seriously doubt any on todays Supreme Court- except for maybe Clarance Thomas, has read as much on what the Constitution means as much as I have** ::stunned silence:: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/79 "2002-12-11T21:01:33Z")
**Susanann:** _The ACLU does not believe in, and has no understanding of, the 2nd, 9th, or 10th ammendments._ This illustrates the problem with defining “conservative” as “one who believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights”: it’s such a broad definition that it also includes most liberals. Then you have to come up with [“True Scotsman”](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)-type arguments to maintain that the liberals aren’t **really** supporting the Bill of Rights, or aren’t understanding it correctly. “True Scotsman” arguments don’t generally fly very far around here. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/80 "2002-12-11T21:04:02Z")
He or She is also using the True Scotsman to define conservatives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983.md?page=5)