# Credibility of the Hollywood Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983 "2002-12-11T11:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/101 "2002-12-12T02:26:10Z")
**Hentor** , I don’t want to hijack this thread any further, but I didn’t want you to think your comments had gone unnoticed, so I’ll just direct you to [this](http://www.hillebrander.de/woods/intro.htm) very nice analysis of James Woods’ incredible acting range. (I didn’t write the thing, in fact, I only found it today as a result of this thread, so thanks!) ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/102 "2002-12-12T02:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Really? A lot of conservatives I know seem to have a problem with the 4th Amendment, and for that matter, some quibbles with the 1st Amendment and the 8th Amendment. They tend to ignore the 9th Amendment altogether, since it interferes with their “strict constructionist” approach to Constitutional issues. \*\* A lot of people “call” themselves “conservatives”, but are NOT. It is still a free country, and you can call yourself anything you want to, but that does not make it so. You can call yourself a gas station, but that does not mean that my car engine will run on whatever liquid streams out of you. Anyone who “calls” themselves a “conservative” and does not believe in the United States government, does not believe in the Constitution, and does not believe in the Bill of Rights, is no conservative!!! , any more than someone who calls himself a fundamentalist christian but yet does not know the Bible, does not believe the Bible, has not studied the Bible, and does not know or understand what the Bible says. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/103 "2002-12-12T03:45:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted Susannan_ > > Sorry, but no. > > I have heard of Micheal Moores latest film, and it is clear that he has no understanding of guns, nor the causes of crime/murder. He may or may not be a good guy, but his apparent total lack of understanding of crime and guns make his sincere membership in a Second Amendment society very suspect. I realize the fact that you have “heard of” Michael Moore’s film makes you a formidable expert on the issue, but if I may: Michael Moore has been a member of the NRA since he was a child. He won sharpshooting contests as a teen-ager, and he is a former gun-safety instructor. At no point in the movie does Moore ever try to make a case for gun prohibition, in fact he specifically dismisses gun ownership as being a root cause for violent crime. When you say that “…it is clear that he has no understanding of guns, nor the causes of crime/murder.” what are you basing it on? What specific knowledge do you actually possess as to what Michael Moore does or does not know vis a vis guns and crime. Just so you know, Moore never CLAIMS to know the reason that Americans are violent. That is the POINT of the film. He is just asking QUESTIONS. I see you’re new here, but when you’re in GD you can’t just talk out of your ass, as you seem to be fond of doing, without showing at least some minimal support. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Harvey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@Max\_Harvey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Harvey)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/104 "2002-12-12T04:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*It is usually difficult, and futile, to argue with a Libertarian. \*\* Yeah, ideological consistency can be a pain in the ass. I’d like to hear your answer to **spoke’s** question about marijuana legalization. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/105 "2002-12-12T05:22:32Z")
**Susanann:** > [@](#): > > Amendment IX: > > “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” > > This is not hard, nor is it rocket science. Just what part of this ammendment are you having trouble understanding? Just this: Is the right to privacy one of those unenumerated rights? What are some other rights the Framers had in mind as retained by the people? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/106 "2002-12-12T05:35:12Z")
by **Susanna** > [@](#): > > Sorry. Then they must be different kinds of conservatives, **we all strictly believe in the Constitution** , and all 10 of the Bill of Rights, including the 1st, 4th, 8th, and 9th. I dont know what your strict constructionists think, but **we do know what the founding fathers thought** , and we agree with them. This sounds a little bit like religious dogmatism to me. How do you know what the Founding Fathers–hallowed be thy name, 'til Kingdom come–thought centuries ago? In all honesty, they’re probably doing cartwheels in their gaves right now because two black people are in the cabinent and women actually populate the senate and house. A _true_ conservative would be relunctant to add amendments that involve changing the system. Wouldn’t a _true_ conservative strive to keep the country’s government _just_ as the Framers envisioned? Which was, in all likelihood, white and masculine? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/107 "2002-12-12T06:00:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyone who “calls” themselves a “conservative” and does not believe in the United States government, does not believe in the Constitution, and does not believe in the Bill of Rights, is no conservative!!! To tell you the truth, I’ve never before heard a better explication of No True Scotsman. Right on the money. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/108 "2002-12-12T06:05:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Schwarzenegger is no conservative, luckily, he can never run for president. Schwarzenegger just pretends to be republican, but his ideas are liberal. > \*\* Anyone remember the movie _Demolition Man_? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/109 "2002-12-12T07:02:20Z")
Admittedly, no one can know for certain what Bush’s motives are for wanting to go to war with Iraq. But since he won’t be specific, I can’t blame **anyone** for speculating. I don’t think that these celebrities have presented themselves as experts, but they are smart enough to take advantage of their fame in order to steer the country away from a war with Iraq. If I had the ear of the masses, I would speak up too! I never objected to John Wayne or Jimmy Steward speaking out and I’m not going to start objecting now that I agree with what is being said. We really can’t go to war without knowing the reason why, can we??? Keep in mind that it wasn’t just Bush’s father who was in danger. Laura Bush was travelling with the elder President Bush at the time of the assassination attempt and probably would have be a victim if the attempt had been successful. Even if it is just sub-consciously, I would think that that is\* likely\* to weigh on Bush’s mind. Mike Farrell said: > [@](#): > > * * * > > It is inappropriate for the administration to trump up a case in which we are ballyhooed into war. I agree. It is damn well inappropriate! Who could disagree with that? The question is, is that what the administration is doing? I think that Mr. Farrell has more carefully chosen his words than Mr. Sheen. I do not consider Senator Fred Thompson to be a Conservative. And I say that from a liberal viewpoint As for his career changes, actually, he was an attorney first. (During the Watergate hearings he served as counsel to Sen. Howard Baker. He is the one who asked the question which exposed that conversations in the Oval Office had been taped.) He became a hero to a lot of people when he helped to bring down the person who was arguably the State of Tennessee’s most corrupt governor. (I confess, it was a Democrat.) When a movie was made about the woman who exposed the corruption, attorney Fred Thompson played himself. He must have been convincing because he continued with acting roles until he decided to run for the Senate. He lost his daughter in the last year or so and I don’t think he has had the heart for politics since then. He is still a Senator for another month or so but he has also returned to acting. He is conservative on many issues but moderate on most. I don’t think that you have seen the last of him in Washington. [/that particular hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/110 "2002-12-12T07:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact is that if we bred Pat Buchanan with Barbara Streisand we’d end up with fascists. Two of them would be Jews. I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/111 "2002-12-12T07:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Wouldn’t a _true_ conservative strive to keep the country’s government just as the Framers envisioned? Which was, in all likelihood, white and masculine? And they would carry muskets. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/112 "2002-12-12T07:39:59Z")
> [@](#): > > A country singer would have a very hard time selling records in good ole boy country if he was a liberal. Wow! Three stereotypes in one sentence! Do you feel that you are typical of Conservatives? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/113 "2002-12-12T08:02:11Z")
**Susannan** , are there other colors than black and white in your world? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/114 "2002-12-12T08:08:45Z")
—I dont know what your strict constructionists think, but we do know what the founding fathers thought, and we agree with them. Are you saying those who agree with the ideas of George Washington, and his buddies, are not conservatives?— I agree with most of them (not things like the legality of slavery, obviously), and I’m not by any means a conservative. I have no vision of a particular social order I think is best: other than a social order which allows people, as much as possible, to pursue their own ideals of happiness. Of course, the founders weren’t all of one mind about everything, even the Bill of Rights. And they set up a system that allowed people to amend the constitution. So it’s not strictly true at all that people who think some of the Bill of Rights are misguided are going against the explicit will of the founders. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/115 "2002-12-12T12:12:38Z")
Susanann wrote: > [@](#): > > It is usually difficult, and futile, to argue with a Libertarian. Thank you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/116 "2002-12-12T13:48:56Z")
[country talk] Arguing with a libertarian is kinda like wrasslin’ with a pig. After a few hours ya realize the pig _likes it_. [/country talk] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/117 "2002-12-12T14:10:50Z")
And then the intelligent squid make an appearance and suddenly your party is totally ruined and you can’t quite figure out who’s to blame… ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/118 "2002-12-12T14:20:44Z")
Susanann said: > [@](#): > > Schwarzenegger is no conservative, luckily, he can never run for president. Schwarzenegger just pretends to be republican, but his ideas are liberal. Then Muad’Dib said: > [@](#): > > Anyone remember the movie Demolition Man? You mean the [Demolition Man](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0106697) which starred Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes? I’m missing the connection to Schwarzenegger. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/119 "2002-12-12T14:23:27Z")
The movie featured a moment where Stallone looks bemused upon discovering that Schwarzeneggar was President while he was on ice. At the same time the US becomes a benevolent police state, more or less. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983/120 "2002-12-12T16:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Amendment IX: > > “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” > > This is not hard, nor is it rocket science. Just what part of this ammendment are you having trouble understanding? \*\* Hey, you’re the one who said the ACLU doesn’t understand the 9th Amendment. How are they getting it wrong, in your view? And more to the point, how does the 9th Amendment fit with your (apparent) view that the Constitution is inflexible, except by further amendment? Do you consider the rights listed in the Bill of Rights to be an exhaustive list of all the rights we have? Or do you take the 9th Amendment at face value and accept that there are other rights not specifically listed, but which we still retain (such as, perhaps, a right to privacy)? (And on another matter, why _didn’t_ you answer my earlier question about legalization of marijuana?) (And does supporting the 2nd Amendment make me a “conservative”? Even if I also believe in social security, a progressive income tax, environmental regulation, the estate tax, corporate regulation, anti-trust laws, the Civil Rights Act, etc., etc., etc.?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-hollywood-left/141983.md?page=7)