# Credibility of the Southern Poverty Law Center **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314 "2015-07-27T13:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/1 "2015-07-27T13:50:13Z")
I’ve always thought of the [SPLC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center) as a respectable and respected organization with a good track record for keeping tabs on hate groups. Somewhat similar to the [Anti-Defamation League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League), though its roots are black rather than Jewish. But every once in a great while I come across [this sort of thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18504185#post18504185): > [@Illegal immigration to the United States](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/120): > > And both your cites point to the same source as to why CIS is so bad: The Southern Poverty Law Center, which ironically, is one of the most biased, most wacky organizations to exist. (“CIS” is [the Center for Immigration Studies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies).) RationalWiki (the credibility of which may be debated in another thread) notes that some progressives [have their own criticisms](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Progressive_Criticism) of the SPLC, but they’re fairly mild. Does anyone care to make a case that the SPLC is one of the most biased, most wacky organizations to exist? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/2 "2015-07-27T14:18:40Z")
I get their quarterly magazine, the Intelligence Report. I find it very useful and not whackadoodle. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/3 "2015-07-27T14:19:49Z")
Do you have any strong criticisms from a less partisan source? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/4 "2015-07-27T14:26:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > RationalWiki (the credibility of which may be debated in another thread) notes that some progressives [have their own criticisms](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Progressive_Criticism) of the SPLC, but they’re fairly mild. Those are fair criticisms, but yes, minor. In the past they’ve focused on some groups that seemed somewhat harmless at first but later showed their true colors. SPLC has a large database of people involved in hate groups and they may identify an organization based on it’s membership instead of its stated purpose. If they have got in wrong once in a rare while it’s hardly a reason to label them as extremist or whacko. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/5 "2015-07-27T14:28:06Z")
Right-wingers are mostly angry that the SPLC noticed that the leading anti-immigrant groups like CIS have easily documented white supremacist origins. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/6 "2015-07-27T14:34:45Z")
On a side note, what’s the deal with the name? “Poverty law” doesn’t seem to have much to do with their stated goal of identifying and litigating against hate groups. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/7 "2015-07-27T14:41:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you have any strong criticisms from a less partisan source? [Some; not many – and not that strong, either.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Controversy) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/8 "2015-07-27T14:42:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > On a side note, what’s the deal with the name? “Poverty law” doesn’t seem to have much to do with their stated goal of identifying and litigating against hate groups. Well, it was originally founded to handle anti-discrimination cases – pro bono, I presume, for poor clients. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/9 "2015-07-27T14:42:55Z")
NAACP hasn’t changed their name, despite the fact the “colored people” is an utterly outdated term. They got over it, you probably can too. ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/10 "2015-07-27T14:46:59Z")
SPLC seem more willing to take on right-wing Christian Zionists hatemongers like John Hagee while the ADL seems to largely give them a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/11 "2015-07-27T14:48:29Z")
> [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > SPLC seem more willing to take on right-wing Christian Zionists hatemongers like John Hagee while the ADL seems to largely give them a pass. Gee, this took all of 1 second to find. [http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-slams-hagee-for-calling-obama-anti-semitic/](http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-slams-hagee-for-calling-obama-anti-semitic/) Is there some reason you insist on making this discussion about The Evil Jews? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/12 "2015-07-27T14:49:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > NAACP hasn’t changed their name, despite the fact the “colored people” is an utterly outdated term. They got over it, you probably can too. I didn’t say I had a problem with the name - I was just asking where it came from. ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/13 "2015-07-27T14:53:29Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Gee, this took all of 1 second to find. [http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-slams-hagee-for-calling-obama-anti-semitic/](http://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-slams-hagee-for-calling-obama-anti-semitic/) > > Is there some reason you insist on making this discussion about The Evil Jews? Wow, in record time. Read Foxman’s letter to Hagee here: [http://archive.adl.org/holocaust/letter\_john\_hagee.html](http://archive.adl.org/holocaust/letter_john_hagee.html) “We are grateful that you have devoted your life to combating anti-Semitism and supporting the State of Israel. We wholeheartedly support your efforts to eradicate anti-Semitism, including its historic antecedents in the Christian community. We especially appreciate your extraordinary efforts to rally so many in the Christian community to stand with Israel.” His criticism is tepid at best. He is hardly condemnatory of Hagee. Hagee is a dangerous lunatic and Foxman is coddling him as this serious respectable figure in the Christian community. He’s not. My point stands: the SPLC is way more strident in their criticism of Christian Zionist nutters than the mollycoddling ADL. Great exposé on Anti-Muslim hate groups from the SPLC here: [http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/summer/the-anti-muslim-inner-circle](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/summer/the-anti-muslim-inner-circle) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/14 "2015-07-27T14:54:40Z")
If you want to know anything about a racist group, you ask the SPLC. You can ask the ADL, too, but they have more of an axe to grind. I think the SPLC has done itself something of a disservice by expanding its definition of “hate group” to include non-race-related hate (for want of a better term). Focus on the Family is certainly a hate group, but there are lots of other organizations that track anti-LGBT groups (or can). ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/15 "2015-07-27T14:55:44Z")
I’ll let you read the dates on the two stories and ponder the meaning of “is.” In the meantime – what does the ADL have to do with this at all? Why is your response to “why do conservatives dislike the SPLC” shouting about a Jewish group? ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/16 "2015-07-27T14:59:04Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I’ll let you read the dates on the two stories and ponder the meaning of “is.” In the meantime – what does the ADL have to do with this at all? Why is your response to “why do conservatives dislike the SPLC” shouting about a Jewish group? ADL was mentioned by the OP. It constantly comes up in comparison to the SPLC. Just Google the two names. And yeah, given my letter is direct written correspondence between Hagee and Foxman, it’s quite relevant. I never said it was related to the right-wing puff piece you linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/17 "2015-07-27T15:01:54Z")
> [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > And yeah, given my letter is direct written correspondence between Hagee and Foxman, it’s quite relevant. I never said it was related to the right-wing puff piece you linked to. That the ADL condemned Hagee is a fact, not a “right wing puff piece,” and an easily discoverable piece of info contra to your assertion that they “give him a pass.” FYI, \*Times of Israel \*is generally considered a left-leaning, anti-settlements paper, but I know to you it’s all just Jews = Bad. ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/18 "2015-07-27T15:09:40Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > That the ADL condemned Hagee is a fact, not a “right wing puff piece,” and an easily discoverable piece of info contra to your assertion that they “give him a pass.” FYI, \*Times of Israel \*is generally considered a left-leaning, anti-settlements paper, but I know to you it’s all just Jews = Bad. He condemned the comment, not the man. Hagee deserves total condemnation as a lunatic, bigoted cretin, as any civilized person would do. Instead of doing so, Foxman praised him as an important figure in leading the fight against antisemitism and gave him great legitimacy by doing so. Making bedfellows with that sort is incredibly stupid. The SPLC never does this. The ADL does. The article is indeed a right-wing puff piece, because it breathlessly reports Ted Cruz’s claims about Iran with no counter or critical comment. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/19 "2015-07-27T15:14:36Z")
> [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > He condemned the comment, not the man. Hagee deserves total condemnation as a lunatic, bigoted cretin, as any civilized person would do. Instead of doing so, Foxman praised him as an important figure in leading the fight against antisemitism and gave him great legitimacy by doing so. Making bedfellows with that sort is incredibly stupid. The SPLC never does this. The ADL does. He praised him in 2008 and then condemned him in 2014 when he said a different thing. Since you won’t accept the first paper that came up on Google for a simple reporting of a quote, here is the ADL’s own press release about it. > **[ADL Says Pastor Hagee’s Remarks Criticizing President Obama “Offensive and...](https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/adl-says-pastor-hagees-remarks-criticizing-president-obama-offensive-and)** It’s still written by Jews so I’m sure you’ll find some problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/20 "2015-07-27T15:16:29Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > It’s still written by Jews so I’m sure you’ll find some problem with it. Surely comments like this violate forum rules? The constant insinuation that I am a rabid Jew hater for making extremely mainstream, common criticisms of right-wing Christian Zionists should stay in the BBQ pit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314.md?page=2)