# Credibility of the Southern Poverty Law Center **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314 "2015-07-27T13:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/21 "2015-07-27T15:31:44Z")
> [@gracefulfatsheba](#): > > Surely comments like this violate forum rules? The constant insinuation that I am a rabid Jew hater for making extremely mainstream, common criticisms of right-wing Christian Zionists should stay in the BBQ pit. I think you guys are talking past each other. The ADL’s mission is to report on anti-Semitism, and they’ve expanded this to include all racial/ethnic hatred since it tends to go hand-in-hand with anti-Semitism. Unless Hagee is a racist, they have no interest in condemning him (hateful though he may be about Catholics, Muslims, and lots of other people). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/22 "2015-07-27T16:00:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Does anyone care to make a case that the SPLC is one of the most biased, most wacky organizations to exist? It’s long been my observation that some parties that disagree with people holding opposing viewpoints describe said opposition as “whack” and “biased” whether they are or are not. When you don’t have a factual rebuttal I guess that just leaves _ad hominen_ attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/23 "2015-07-27T16:16:08Z")
The SPLC does keep saying Americans are “racist,” when everyone knows racism in America ended in 2009. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/24 "2015-07-27T16:49:15Z")
The SPLC is a type of charity scam.They have raised[huge amounts of money](http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/05/15/king-of-the-hate-business/), spent relatively little on programs, and have amassed an endowment between 50 and 100 million dollars. They use misleading appeals to raise money and then use that money to enrich themselves while spending much less on programs than other charities. Since their fundraising depends on the menace of hate groups they are always going to be alarmist and try to include as many groups as possible whether they are actual hate groups or not. [Here](http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/12/the-hate-list/)is an article about how they massage the numbers to try to mislead their donors. One example is they list the Nation of Islam as 105 hate groups instead of one group with 105 chapters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/25 "2015-07-27T16:53:32Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > They use misleading appeals to raise money and then use that money to enrich themselves . . . How do you know any of the organization’s officers are getting rich off it? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/26 "2015-07-27T17:23:48Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The SPLC is a type of charity scam.They have raised[huge amounts of money](http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/05/15/king-of-the-hate-business/), spent relatively little on programs, and have amassed an endowment between 50 and 100 million dollars. They use misleading appeals to raise money and then use that money to enrich themselves while spending much less on programs than other charities. > Since their fundraising depends on the menace of hate groups they are always going to be alarmist and try to include as many groups as possible whether they are actual hate groups or not. [Here](http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/12/the-hate-list/)is an article about how they massage the numbers to try to mislead their donors. One example is they list the Nation of Islam as 105 hate groups instead of one group with 105 chapters. [Charity Navigator gives them 3 stars out of 4, and they spend 65.3% of their budget on programs.](http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4482#.VbZoD_m-Bb0) ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/27 "2015-07-27T17:30:30Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The SPLC is a type of charity scam.They have raised[huge amounts of money](http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/05/15/king-of-the-hate-business/), spent relatively little on programs, and have amassed an endowment between 50 and 100 million dollars. It’s not a big mystery why one of the [most influential left-wing Jew-bashing websites](http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/07/25/guardian-praises-anti-semitic-site-counterpunch-as-progressive/)hates the SPLC, but just to address one of the the specific ironies here: The reason the KKK in 2015 is the province of trailer-dwelling losers in Halloween costumes who are not a meaningful threat to anybody is precisely because of the SPLC’s 1980s strategy of filing civil suits against Klan groups for assaults and wrongful death. This bankrupted the leading KKK chapters and forced the rest to become perpetually independent. The “invisible empire” now goes to pains to keep the chapter in one county from having any formal links to the chapter in the next county over, because they are terrified of having all their assets seized if they are shown to work in concert. This effectively broke the power of the KKK in the U.S. To complain that the SPLC is focusing on a non-problem is tremendously ignorant of exactly how and why that problem was neutralized. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/28 "2015-07-27T17:34:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The SPLC is a type of charity scam.They have raised[huge amounts of money](http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/05/15/king-of-the-hate-business/), spent relatively little on programs, and have amassed an endowment between 50 and 100 million dollars. They use misleading appeals to raise money and then use that money to enrich themselves while spending much less on programs than other charities. > Since their fundraising depends on the menace of hate groups they are always going to be alarmist and try to include as many groups as possible whether they are actual hate groups or not. [Here](http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/12/the-hate-list/)is an article about how they massage the numbers to try to mislead their donors. One example is they list the Nation of Islam as 105 hate groups instead of one group with 105 chapters. Neither of your cites have cites as to the numbers they list. Even if their numbers are right they don’t prove what you claim they do. You give the Counterpunch article as a cite for your claim that they spent “relatively little on programs”, but it’s hard to tell from the article just how much they spent. It does claim that they spent $20 million on program expenses in 2007, which is not a little amount. How much of that was wisely spent isn’t stated one way or the other. You then cite a Foreign Policy article and claim that it’s about how they “massage the numbers to try to mislead their donors”. The article says no such thing. It does point out that “number of hate groups” is a difficult number to pin down and whether to count some things and not others is very subjective and open to opinion. The bit about them intentionally misleading their donors is editorializing on your part and is not stated or implied in the article. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/29 "2015-07-27T17:51:19Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Right-wingers are mostly angry that the SPLC noticed that the leading anti-immigrant groups like CIS have easily documented white supremacist origins. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think the SPLC has done itself something of a disservice by expanding its definition of “hate group” to include non-race-related hate (for want of a better term). Focus on the Family is certainly a hate group, but there are lots of other organizations that track anti-LGBT groups (or can). That’s kind of the issue right there. If you’re a left-winger who regards virtually all right-wingers as “haters”, you naturally appreciate the SPLC for characterizing them as such. If you think these are legitimate viewpoints, then you naturally don’t appreciate the SPLC for suggesting they’re the equivalent of the KKK. Not sure there’s much use in arguing about it. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/30 "2015-07-27T18:10:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s kind of the issue right there. > > If you’re a left-winger who regards virtually all right-wingers as “haters”, you naturally appreciate the SPLC for characterizing them as such. If you think these are legitimate viewpoints, then you naturally don’t appreciate the SPLC for suggesting they’re the equivalent of the KKK. > > Not sure there’s much use in arguing about it. But it’s not about regarding virtually all right-wingers as “haters”. I doubt the SPLC says much about groups that promote laissez-faire economics, or deny human caused climate change or attempt to end Social Security or Medicare. Those are all right-wing causes that have little or nothing to do with hate and, as far as I know, aren’t targeted by the SPLC. Focus on The Family, on the other hand, condemns homosexuals. They may say it’s not out of hate, but it can be reasonably argued that it is exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/31 "2015-07-27T18:26:20Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Focus on The Family, on the other hand, condemns homosexuals. They may say it’s not out of hate, but it can be reasonably argued that it is exactly that. It can also be reasonably be argued that it’s not. But the real point is that it’s not remotely the same as groups like the KKK, and the SPLC grouping would give the impression that it is. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/32 "2015-07-27T18:38:22Z")
Of course. It can be argued either way. But it’s not the case that they are the same as, for example, The American Enterprise Institute. The SPLC does not regard virtually all right-wingers as “haters”, which is what you claimed. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/33 "2015-07-27T18:41:24Z")
Sorry, I didn’t mean that the SPLC does that. I wrote “if you’re a left-winger who regards virtually all right-wingers as “haters” …”. I didn’t mean that the SPLC had done that. On looking back I see I wrote confusingly - my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/34 "2015-07-27T18:48:25Z")
I guess I kind of misread what you said. I will say though, that I think few left-wingers regard all right-wing groups as haters. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/35 "2015-07-27T19:22:24Z")
[quote=“BrainGlutton, post:1, topic:726314”] I’ve always thought of the [SPLC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center) as a respectable and respected organization with a good track record for keeping tabs on hate groups. Somewhat similar to the [Anti-Defamation League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League), though its roots are black rather than Jewish. But every once in a great while I come across [this sort of thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18504185#post18504185): (“CIS” is [the Center for Immigration Studies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies).) RationalWiki (the credibility of which may be debated in another thread) notes that some progressives [have their own criticisms](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Progressive_Criticism) of the SPLC, but they’re fairly mild. Does anyone care to make a case that the SPLC is one of the most biased, most wacky organizations to exist?[/QUOTE Its roots aren’t black. Morris Dees is a white guy. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/36 "2015-07-27T19:32:44Z")
I inferred he meant ‘SPLC’s roots are \*protecting \*black people.’ ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/37 "2015-07-27T19:41:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How do you know any of the organization’s officers are getting rich off it? The SPLC currently has an endowment of 245 million dollars, it has nine board members that make over 150k per year and has a headquarters known locally as the poverty palace. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/38 "2015-07-27T19:48:08Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The SPLC currently has an endowment of 245 million dollars, it has nine board members that make over 150k per year and has a headquarters known locally as the poverty palace. Do you have evidence that their money comes from the SPLC? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/39 "2015-07-27T19:53:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The SPLC currently has an endowment of 245 million dollars, it has nine board members that make over 150k per year and has a headquarters known locally as the poverty palace. By “locally” you mean “on the websites of racists,” right? That seems to be what Google indicates. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314/40 "2015-07-27T19:55:28Z")
[Here is a link to their financial disclosure page.](http://www.splcenter.org/who-we-are/financial-information) Since I can’t open pdf files at work, could someone else do the honors at find out how much the Board of Directors gets paid? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credibility-of-the-southern-poverty-law-center/726314.md?page=3)