# Credit card liability for fraud

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670>\
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\
**Created:** [March 13, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670 "2012-03-13T17:42:53Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\
**Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/21 "2012-03-14T21:10:39Z")

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> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#):
>
> However, if my payment method isn’t accepted _everywhere_ I want to be, then I’m using something else.

I said “can”; think of it like a death penalty; only for a select few of the most serious cases. I don’t know how often, if ever it gets to this level.  
The flip side of your quote is if you, Mr. Merchant, make it onerous for me, Joe Consumer, by not taking Visa/MC, I’m going to do my shopping elsewhere. Except for the “exclusive” deals (ie. Olympics only took Visa - which they advertised the heck out of & are more marketing by Visa or MC) almost everyplace that takes one, takes both. So if you lose one, you may very well loose both  
If you want to accept their product, you gotta play by their rules.

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**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/22 "2012-03-15T00:27:01Z")

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> [@Spiderman](#):
>
> The **standard** merchant contract _prohibits_ asking for ID. Think about it from Visa’s standpoint, they want to make it as easy for you, the consumer to use their payment method. If I need to pull out a card, & ID, & a DNA sample, I’m more likely to pay by cash or check (remember, the rules have been in place for years now). I don’t know much about the regulations of coin/precious metals dealers, but your typical mall merchant is full of crap when they say it’s required/the law. I know Visa (Visa, not the bank that issued you your card) will write the merchant a real nasty letter if you bring it to their attention. Continued noncompliance can result in the loss of the merchant being about to take the card.

Oh, he also asks for ID when I pay by cash or check, too. Yes, even cash. So I suspect that it’s a law that applies to buying the precious metals, not a law regarding CC purchases. I know that merchants aren’t supposed to ask for ID when using CCs, and personally, I think that’s a mistake, especially given the prevalence of ID theft. But they didn’t consult me when they drew up the CC regulations.

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**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/23 "2012-03-15T01:21:11Z")

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> [@Minnie\_Luna](#):
>
> My husband travels a lot for business. He always uses his Discover card for hotels, meals, etc. Without fail a day or two after he leaves town, I get a call at home that there is suspicious activity on our account. I tell them he is working out of town and the charges are being made are ok. Finally, I got pissed when they called and asked to speak to a supervisor and questioned why the f@$\* they bother calling every month when they see he charges at least one week a month in a different city at a hotel along with meals and either an airline ticket or a train ticket to said city.

I can answer the “why”. They have a computer program that uses this logic:

IF (charges are made at a location more than X distance from the average charge locations in the past 3 weeks)  
THEN Flag for suspicious activity.

You can see that might cover many situations, but not yours.

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**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/24 "2012-03-15T03:26:13Z")

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I’ve had it happen to me both ways before. Once I filled up my motorcycle (a small amount of gas) road a 100 miles or so, and then topped off again (another small amount of gas). Immediately after that I went and tried to buy a suit. That charge didn’t go through. I called and it all got straightened out. At first I was upset, but upon thinking about it I realized it was probably in my best interest. Two \< $10 gas charges a few hours apart, followed by a $400 charge? That really does look like fraud, but it would have been nice if they’d called or emailed me. I don’t remember which bank that card was from.

Recently I’ve had my FIA serviced card frauded twice in a year. The first time there were two **card present** cash advance transactions at a grocery store in the UK (I’m in the US). They called me very soon after. I called back on the number on the card, got put through to the fraud department and got things sorted. I wasn’t liable for anything of course, just a hassle.

The second time, FIA called me (and the fraud alert number IDed on my phone) to ask if I’d moved to Florida and charged a bunch of stuff from an online toy store. Once again it was fraud and was sorted out with some hassle, but no financial damage.

I do agree with the OP, in that it seems a bit silly to have “no liability for fraud” as a one of the account selling features, when that’s pretty much mandated by law ($50 thing).

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**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/25 "2012-03-15T04:02:45Z")

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> [@echoreply](#):
>
> Recently I’ve had my FIA serviced card frauded twice in a year. The first time there were two **card present** cash advance transactions at a grocery store in the UK (I’m in the US). They called me very soon after. I called back on the number on the card, got put through to the fraud department and got things sorted. I wasn’t liable for anything of course, just a hassle.

Speaking of FIA, I have good news and bad news about them.

The good news: They have a nifty service for doing on-line purchases. I don’t know what other credit cards provide this. When you find something you’d like to buy on-line, note the price. Then go to the FIA web-site and click on “Shop Safe”. You enter the amount you plan to spend (I always go a little over) and an expiration time (like, two weeks) and you get issued a brand-new credit card number (including the 3-digit CVV thingy). Then go back to the shopping site and buy whatever, using that number as your credit card number. To the merchant, it looks like a perfectly normal number, and he never knows the difference. FIA then bills it to your regular credit card account. Once you use the number, even if there is some remaining “eligible” amount you can use, you can only use that number again with the SAME merchant, and only until the two-week expiration.

The bad news (if you have qualms about doing bidness with BofA): FIA credit cards is actually run by BofA (and has been for a while, I gather). Soon (like this month, I think), they will do away with the FIA pretense and issue new BofA-branded cards. From all the bad press BofA has, I simply don’t want to be their customer. YMMV.

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**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/26 "2012-03-15T04:48:30Z")

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I don’t think this is off topic…

Reading this thread and thinking about the CVV let me ask y’all this: Since CVV is meant for instances where the merchant does not have the physical card (i.e. telephone order) and since some dishonest people, let’s say at restaurants, might copy my card number and CVV, is it in my best interest to take my card and obliterate the CVV after writing it down someplace safe?

If I do so and had the card to a merchant, they don’t need the number and a dishonest staff member can’t use the card to order on-line stuff. Since I do have the CVV number, if I call someplace to place an order I can provide the CVV.

What do you think? Good idea to help prevent fraud or a waste of time?

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**Author:** ![\_Olive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/4af34b/32.png) [@\_Olive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Olive)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-card-liability-for-fraud/615670/27 "2012-03-15T04:54:26Z")

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I have had really good service with my card. I was in cairo making a second purchase at a high end jewelry store when my card was denied. I was able to call them on the spot and straighten it all out.

Just last week I disputed a charge. I got a call within the next few hours telling me they were going to give me a courtesy credit based on my history.

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