# Credit union kicks us while we're down **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975 "2009-10-16T00:53:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/41 "2009-10-16T18:03:59Z")
> [@as\_u\_wish](#): > > One of the things I learned 30 years ago when I faced similar financial difficulties: Always keep your day-to-day cash in a different bank from the one that has your car and home loans, and consider having the car and home loans at different banks. Hey, I’ve been doing this all along, and I thought it was because I was too lazy to get my ass to the bank to consolidate! Turns out I was a good fiscal planner! :: pats self on back for having good judgment and foresight :: > [@moonstarssun](#): > > Eesh. This is good advice, but it makes my head spin to think about. And it makes me laugh, thinking that we have 57 cents in the bank–how ever shall we divide that up? 🙂 Q. **Moonstarssun** has a quarter, two dimes, two nickels, and two pennies. She gives $773 to a troll under a bridge. How much can she tip her hairdresser? A. 😕 **Moonstarssun** , best of luck to you. I hope you both get good jobs soon. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/42 "2009-10-16T18:49:42Z")
{{{{ **moonstarssun** }}}} > [@Broomstick](#): > > as **Carol Stream** so aptly demonstrated there will be people totally unrelated to the situation who will also demonize you. Unfortunately, I must tell you that there will be more of that ahead. Most people will be sympathetic and helpful but the haters are like a slap across the face. Of course, their rage actually comes from fear - they believe that people who get laid off/are poor/bankrupt/suffer misfortune somehow brought it upon themselves, they MUST believe that to feel safe. You see, if that is how the world works then _all they have to do_ is just do the “correct” thing every time and they will be safe, safe, safe! But if bad things can happen to people who do everything correctly why, then the world is _not_ safe and _they, too_ might one day suffer misfortune despite their best efforts, despite their purity, despite everything. You see a lot of that kind of thinking, not just with respect to finances, but when someone is a victim of a crime or gets a disease. Sure would be nice to live in a world where things like that never happened to people unless they did something wrong. Even thinking you live in a world like that must be nice. Unfortunately, I can’t tell myself I live in a world like that- I know it simply ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/43 "2009-10-16T21:45:51Z")
> [@moonstarssun](#): > > Getting a haircut, printing my portfolio, maybe picking up a new skirt so I have backup in case of stains or tears. I pulled out my debit card at the salon, and it wouldn’t go through. Called the bank, and it turned out we had a balance of $0.57. What a nightmare. I’m with **kaylasdad99** in wanting to know how this played out, if sharing it is okay with you. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, it could have been worse - many banks would have let your charge go through, then charge you overdraft fees, after which your balance would have been negative and you’d owe even more money. I don’t see how this could be worse than being left with a haircut (meal, tank of gas, anything else that can’t simply be put back on the shelf) you can’t pay for. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/44 "2009-10-16T21:51:13Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Don’t be so coy. What bank should I avoid dealing with? You shouldn’t have to worry about it - it’s a Canadian Bank - originally East Coast, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge\_Burrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Jorge\_Burrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge_Burrito)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/45 "2009-10-16T22:06:22Z")
Calling you a thief is overboard. You did not just take the money and run. However, I am not going to give you the lovefest others have. You stopped paying on a loan which you agreed to repay. You took money that is not yours and are not paying it back. If this was my money I was loaning you, yes I would of worked with you to try and delay payment. However, if I truly believed you would never be able to pay the money back, I would try and get my money back any way I legally could. I suspect the bank looked at your overall debt and employment opportunities and decided you were in the second category, and quite frankly I have no problem with the fact they did that. If you don’t like it, don’t take out loans that you won’t be able to pay back. Before everyone go nuts on me I realize bad things happen that we can’t predict, I understand that. Having both spouses lose their job falls into this category. It is why I am glad we have bankruptcy laws. Even supposing the OP had a six month rainy day fund (which I doubt), that would of ran out by now. Having said that we as Americans are taking out a lot of debt that we really should not be, and often it is going for materialistic things we don’t actually need. I have no clue if this is the case in the OP, but more often then not debt is being used for a new big screen TV and to buy a McMansion then it is to buy the baby diapers. Even before they lost their job it sounds like they had quite a bit of debt, and if this debt was not for necessities, I have zero sympathy for the OP. Having said that, good luck with your job search, I sincerely hope you get back on your feet. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/46 "2009-10-16T22:19:20Z")
Well said, **Jorge**. **Carol Stream** went too far, but so did everyone who lost their mind about it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/47 "2009-10-16T23:46:11Z")
> [@moonstarssun](#): > > And I hope you’re doing OK too, **Broomstick**. Unemployed since November 2007? Or hopefully you’ve found a job since then. Ugh. What a rotten time for everyone right now. I have found “jobs”, but nothing permanent, nothing full time, and nothing nearly what I was making before. So… the good news is that I do have some money coming in. The bad news is that I have a disabled spouse so I have to support two people on 1/4 of what I was making before. One major difference between you and I is that prior to being laid off we had no debt - our vehicles were paid off, nothing on the credit cards, etc. - and we had 6 months worth of money in the bank. Made a huge difference. But if it had happened 10 years earlier we would have been in the same boat as you, in debt and very stressed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/48 "2009-10-17T00:15:03Z")
> [@Jorge\_Burrito](#): > > Calling you a thief is overboard. You did not just take the money and run. However, I am not going to give you the lovefest others have. You stopped paying on a loan which you agreed to repay. You took money that is not yours and are not paying it back. If this was my money I was loaning you, yes I would of worked with you to try and delay payment. However, if I truly believed you would never be able to pay the money back, I would try and get my money back any way I legally could. I suspect the bank looked at your overall debt and employment opportunities and decided you were in the second category, and quite frankly I have no problem with the fact they did that. If you don’t like it, don’t take out loans that you won’t be able to pay back. > > Before everyone go nuts on me I realize bad things happen that we can’t predict, I understand that. Having both spouses lose their job falls into this category. It is why I am glad we have bankruptcy laws. Even supposing the OP had a six month rainy day fund (which I doubt), that would of ran out by now. Having said that we as Americans are taking out a lot of debt that we really should not be, and often it is going for materialistic things we don’t actually need. I have no clue if this is the case in the OP, but more often then not debt is being used for a new big screen TV and to buy a McMansion then it is to buy the baby diapers. Even before they lost their job it sounds like they had quite a bit of debt, and if this debt was not for necessities, I have zero sympathy for the OP. > > Having said that, good luck with your job search, I sincerely hope you get back on your feet. Did they even notify her what they were going to do? Seems pretty assholish to leave her unable to pay for something unannounced. What if she’d been out of town looking for a job or something when she found out her debt was drained? She should have just walked 60 miles back? What about if she needed copay for medicine? Just do without so the bank can extract it’s pound of flesh? The point being taking someone’s money unannounced can really leave them fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/49 "2009-10-17T00:19:53Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > You shouldn’t have to worry about it - it’s a Canadian Bank - originally East Coast, actually. Well, that’s not too hard to figure out. 😃 I should point out that while That Bank predominantly does just commercial banking in the U.S., they do have a private banking arm in Miami, and a huge presence in the Caribbean. So, there might be justification in outing them. My sister-in-law works for the same bank (utterly different area from consumer business, though), and she was outraged to hear my summary of your experience. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge\_Burrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Jorge\_Burrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge_Burrito)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/50 "2009-10-17T00:28:08Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Did they even notify her what they were going to do? Seems pretty assholish to leave her unable to pay for something unannounced. What if she’d been out of town looking for a job or something when she found out her debt was drained? She should have just walked 60 miles back? > What about if she needed copay for medicine? Just do without so the bank can extract it’s pound of flesh? > > The point being taking someone’s money unannounced can really leave them fucked. It can, and like someone else mentioned it is a good reason to keep money separate from where your loans are. The problem is if they had notified her she would of moved the money out of the account. It is a difficult position for sure, but you have to take emotion out of the argument because you are in a purely financial agreement with the bank. If a bank starts to make exceptions every time someone is in a difficult position, that bank will be out of business within months. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/51 "2009-10-17T00:33:49Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Well, that’s not too hard to figure out. 😃 > > I should point out that while That Bank predominantly does just commercial banking in the U.S., they do have a private banking arm in Miami, and a huge presence in the Caribbean. So, there might be justification in outing them. My sister-in-law works for the same bank (utterly different area from consumer business, though), and she was outraged to hear my summary of your experience. Okay, I’ll bite. It’s Scotiabank. And I am being pretty honest in my summary. I realize it’s just the one branch, but that soured me on the whole company for life. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/52 "2009-10-17T00:42:10Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Did they even notify her what they were going to do? Seems pretty assholish to leave her unable to pay for something unannounced. What if she’d been out of town looking for a job or something when she found out her debt was drained? She should have just walked 60 miles back? > What about if she needed copay for medicine? Just do without so the bank can extract it’s pound of flesh? > > The point being taking someone’s money unannounced can really leave them fucked. But, they didn’t take her money unannounced. Back when she took their money she agreed to pay that money plus interest on a schedule. She defaulted on that agreement, kept money in the bank and the bank took what was theirs. It’s not personal, it doesn’t make her a bad person–but it also wasn’t her money. It was their money that she was withholding because she wanted to use it for something else. ---
**Author:** ![G.Pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@G.Pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Pie)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/53 "2009-10-17T01:11:09Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Okay, I’ll bite. It’s Scotiabank. > > And I am being pretty honest in my summary. I realize it’s just the one branch, but that soured me on the whole company for life. I didn’t really understand what they did here. Isn’t the early payout penalty the greater of three months’ interest or the interest differential? The only time banks ever waive that is if you’re taking out a new mortgage with the same bank. And if they gave you a payout figure of $X, that should have gone to the bank the day the deal closed. They wanted to reassess the penalty the day after closing? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/54 "2009-10-17T01:28:11Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > But, they didn’t take her money unannounced. Back when she took their money she agreed to pay that money plus interest on a schedule. She defaulted on that agreement, kept money in the bank and the bank took what was theirs. It’s not personal, it doesn’t make her a bad person–but it also wasn’t her money. It was their money that she was withholding because she wanted to use it for something else. So what you’re saying is they could provide no notification? I mean “it’s just business” justifies potentially making the OP do without medicine, or being stranded somewhere or any number of shitty situations taking a much depended life line away unannounced could cause. It’s not the suit’s loved ones risking these things, just a name in a computer file. It’s just business. I understand the bank needs to collect to survive, but would having left $30, $40, or maybe $50 of the $750 been that much of a burden for the bank? Case just that little bit could have really helped cushion potential screwage from their unannounced, shall we say, withdrawl. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/55 "2009-10-17T01:39:01Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So what you’re saying is they could provide no notification? Come on, be serious. If the bank gave notification do you think people would leave the money right there? I’m sure it’s in the loan agreement that they can take whatever money is in the account, so that is probably what they consider to be notification. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/56 "2009-10-17T01:48:56Z")
> [@G.Pie](#): > > I didn’t really understand what they did here. Isn’t the early payout penalty the greater of three months’ interest or the interest differential? The only time banks ever waive that is if you’re taking out a new mortgage with the same bank. And if they gave you a payout figure of $X, that should have gone to the bank the day the deal closed. They wanted to reassess the penalty the day after closing? Okay, quick hijack - The penalty is the discretion of the bank’s manger, either three months interest or the intereste differential, not automatically whatever’s greater. When we requested our mortgage payout, they said the payout would be 5000.00, more than what we had thought, but we were willing to be fair, after all, we were the ones selling early. The penalty assessment expired literally the day before our deal closed. The bank re-assessed the penalty, now it was 10,000.00. We asked them to please re-consider, after all, they were getting the money back anyway, we were using it to pay them, but they wouldn’t budge. I realize they did nothing illegal and what happened was enitrely within the right of the manager to decide. We just hoped they would work with us a little more, if they had, they would’ve ended up getting more from us in the long run, because we would’ve ended up paying off the other debts to them too. In the end, that forced us into a bankruptcy and they lost more than what they gained… so did we. I should be clear, we were not innocent in our financial problems. When we bought our house, we _thought_ we were both secure in our jobs and were trying to get pregnant. The house was more than one of us could manage on our own, but together it wasn’t a problem - our mistake. My immediate boss was given the option of cutting one of his two positions, mine or another lady’s. I had just told him that I was pregnant and I was the most junior, so I got laid off. Being pregnant and with mat leave being a year in Canada, I was not able to find another permanent job, so I temped, making much less than before. Then, four months after our daughter was born, my husband was laid off. Although he got another job within a few weeks, that was just enough to finish our precarious hangin-on. We were going under fast. I tried to find another job, but with infant care costing so much, it was difficult to find something that was worth it and not just working to pay daycare. We just didn’t make enough to cover everything and discussed with the bank our plan, we would sell the house, pay off the line of credit, pay down the credit card and re-build. It would be like starting from zero again, with a small amount still owing on the credit card, but certainly manageable. They seemed on board with the plan, until the end. We did communicate with the bank every step of the way and had been customers with them for over ten years. Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/57 "2009-10-17T01:50:15Z")
When the bank chases away enough customers due to the fact that it treats them like shit, I suggest that when the same bank comes cap in hand to ask for a bailout from the taxpayers, that the assets of the bank should be stripped down by corporate raiders without giving them notice. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/58 "2009-10-17T01:52:34Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So what you’re saying is they could provide no notification? No, I’m saying that they provided notification in the orginal loan agreement–You know, the one where she borrowed the money and agreed to pay it back? She declined to meet her obligations with money in the bank because she wanted to use it for other purposes. They exercised their right to retrive their money. You have to understand the bank is a business. ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/59 "2009-10-17T02:08:35Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Come on, be serious. If the bank gave notification do you think people would leave the money right there? I’m sure it’s in the loan agreement that they can take whatever money is in the account, so that is probably what they consider to be notification. Notification isn’t necessarily pre-notification. The bank could (and should, in my opinion) have told them immediately after withdrawing the money. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge\_Burrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Jorge\_Burrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge_Burrito)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975/60 "2009-10-17T02:47:33Z")
> [@supergoose](#): > > Notification isn’t necessarily pre-notification. The bank could (and should, in my opinion) have told them immediately after withdrawing the money. Fair enough, I think that is something most of us would at least agree with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credit-union-kicks-us-while-were-down/513975.md?page=4)