# creeps with no pride, leave me alone **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311 "2007-03-02T16:46:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/61 "2007-03-03T02:17:13Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] Okay, I was being a _litte_ bit facetious. I was also going to suggest you casually ention that you’re a lesbian, or something. [/QUOTE] Oh trust me, that only makes them more persistent. Even if it’s true :rolleyes: . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/62 "2007-03-03T10:15:36Z")
You know, I have asked attractive co-workers half my age out to lunch and my motives were- _to talk with someone while eating_. I am not in the slightest bit interested in a romantic relationship with anyone that immature (and someone half my age\* is \*immature). The OP could try “I can eat lunch with you, but since I don’t want any appearance of this being a date, how about if Bob and Debby come along, and we can all have lunch together?” The OP seems to read to me like “eeww, old guy, so he’s creepy”. But it _could_ be “Guy who isn’t interested at all in a date but still likes a social lunch”. I am skeptical as I have seen a study somewhere where women were shown two video scenarios. In both, there was a rather persistant dude asking the “victim” out. Both had the exact same scripts. In one, the guy was older, chubby and not attractive. In the other, the dude was a studmuffin. When asked if the situation was “sexual harrassment” the women who were surveyed voted heavily “yes” for the older guy, and the opposite for the young stud. I want to ask the OP- but if the guy was young and cute but was just as persistant- would it still be “ewww”? If it was an older \*female \*co-worker, would you assume she was trying to “date” you? Now sure, maybe the OP doesn’t even want to have a non-romantic “just co-workers” lunch with this guy, and that’s fine too, but since she can’t possibly _know_ that he is trying to date her, there is no reason to be rude. If you must say “no” then say it firmly \*and \*politely. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/63 "2007-03-03T11:20:06Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] You know, I have asked attractive co-workers half my age out to lunch and my motives were- _to talk with someone while eating_. I am not in the slightest bit interested in a romantic relationship with anyone that immature (and someone half my age\* is \*immature). The OP could try “I can eat lunch with you, but since I don’t want any appearance of this being a date, how about if Bob and Debby come along, and we can all have lunch together?” The OP seems to read to me like “eeww, old guy, so he’s creepy”. But it _could_ be “Guy who isn’t interested at all in a date but still likes a social lunch”. I am skeptical as I have seen a study somewhere where women were shown two video scenarios. In both, there was a rather persistant dude asking the “victim” out. Both had the exact same scripts. In one, the guy was older, chubby and not attractive. In the other, the dude was a studmuffin. When asked if the situation was “sexual harrassment” the women who were surveyed voted heavily “yes” for the older guy, and the opposite for the young stud. I want to ask the OP- but if the guy was young and cute but was just as persistant- would it still be “ewww”? If it was an older \*female \*co-worker, would you assume she was trying to “date” you? Now sure, maybe the OP doesn’t even want to have a non-romantic “just co-workers” lunch with this guy, and that’s fine too, but since she can’t possibly _know_ that he is trying to date her, there is no reason to be rude. If you must say “no” then say it firmly \*and \*politely. [/QUOTE] Not to speak for **YWTF** , but I got the impression that he didn’t hit “stalker status” until the gazillionth time he asked her to lunch and for the gazillionth time she gave him the polite brush. The reason she’s not interested is that she doesn’t find him even remotely attractive, her type, whatever. She doesn’t need an entire lunch outing to know that this is not the guy for her. The fact that he’s exhibited this creepy brand of persistence is what’s bothering her. Regarding those who say the straightforward blunt “no” is the way to go, she said she _knows_ she’ll probably have to resort to it. But that doesn’t make it any easier for her. This isn’t her normal MO and shutting him down hard will undoubtedly make them _BOTH_ uncomfortable. Frankly, I wouldn’t be as concerned with his feelings at this point either. He’s crossed the line of socially acceptable behavior and probably has the smack-down coming. I’d be more concerned with how the smack-down will make _me_ feel. Second-guessing…does this guy have some sort of mental problem that prevents him from receiving cues that everyone else is capable of receiving? Was I too hard on him? Is this going to turn into a bigger stalking situation? Those feelings can be very distressful. If you’re not used to being blunt, it can be a very hard thing. Lying to protect _her own_ feelings is entirely legitimate as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/64 "2007-03-03T11:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] You know, I have asked attractive co-workers half my age out to lunch and my motives were- _to talk with someone while eating_. [/QUOTE] I’ve had lunch with guys who I’d never date. The thing is, I can tell when it’s “work buddy” lunch and when it’s proposed as a “date.” I’m sure **YWTF** can tell the difference, too. As far as I can tell, she doesn’t actually work with this guy. He’s in her building, but she has no base friendship with him whatsoever. He is a stranger. ---
**Author:** ![tiger\_lily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@tiger\_lily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiger_lily)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/65 "2007-03-03T11:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Now sure, maybe the OP doesn’t even want to have a non-romantic “just co-workers” lunch with this guy, and that’s fine too, but since she can’t possibly _know_ that he is trying to date her, there is no reason to be rude. If you must say “no” then say it firmly \*and \*politely. [/QUOTE] I disagree with the “can’t possibly know” comment. Apart from the fact that this situation has been going on for some time, it’s usually pretty clear when a guy is asking only for company during lunch, and when it has more of a “date” air around it. It’s often not so much what he says as how he says it, and his body language. I’m not sure I could describe all the cues I would take into consideration here; I just know it when I see it. And again, the fact that this guy is not actually a co-worker but someone she sees around the building makes it much more likely that he isn’t repeatedly asking her to lunch just because he’s bored. > [@Kalhoun](#): > > If you’re not used to being blunt, it can be a very hard thing. Lying to protect her own feelings is entirely legitimate as far as I’m concerned. But she’s not protecting her own feelings at this point, is she? Her unwillingness to be blunt (=! rude) seems to be causing her at least as much stress as telling him off would be, if not moreso. So lying at this point is totally counterproductive and not protective of her interests at all. If she can pull herself together long enough to be blunt and polite about not wanting to be asked to lunch, she’ll probably rid herself of this guy permanently. _Especially_ since she doesn’t work with him, the fact that he might be uncomfortable with what she says should not count for much now. Just tell him and be done with it, once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/66 "2007-03-03T11:55:01Z")
Just say “Dammit Gary, I don’t want to have lunch with you, and the way you keep asking is getting irritating, so please don’t ask me again!” Period. Sorry, but I think you are being a wimp about this. Tell the dude “No!” forcefully. This eliminates all the perceived coy bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/67 "2007-03-03T12:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=tiger lily] But she’s not protecting her own feelings at this point, is she? Her unwillingness to be blunt (=! rude) seems to be causing her at least as much stress as telling him off would be, if not moreso. So lying at this point is totally counterproductive and not protective of her interests at all. If she can pull herself together long enough to be blunt and polite about not wanting to be asked to lunch, she’ll probably rid herself of this guy permanently. _Especially_ since she doesn’t work with him, the fact that he might be uncomfortable with what she says should not count for much now. Just tell him and be done with it, once and for all. [/QUOTE] I thought that was the whole point of her post. That she knows she’s got to do the deed, but she’s protecting her own feelings by not having done so at this point. I think she’s up to “here” with him at this point. She knows what she has to do, but she still doesn’t look forward to it. Kind of like a new doctor telling the family that their loved one has passed. It has to happen, but you dread every second of it. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/68 "2007-03-03T12:04:25Z")
I’m a guy, but I don’t understand why it’s so hard for a lady to tell an irritating dude to fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![tiger\_lily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@tiger\_lily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiger_lily)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/69 "2007-03-03T12:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I thought that was the whole point of her post. That she knows she’s got to do the deed, but she’s protecting her own feelings by not having done so at this point. [/QUOTE] But see, in truth she stopped protecting her own feelings a long time ago - probably after the third or fourth time she gave him some lame excuse for not going to lunch. She’s only kidding herself now if she thinks the continued dodging was having the same effect. What’s she’s done is hand over control of her feelings to some guy she barely knows. Time to take that control back, for pity’s sake! No more dilly-dallying around! She’s a grown woman entitled to say no, and she will be doing the best thing in the world _for herself_ by telling him to go away and not come back. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/70 "2007-03-03T12:41:41Z")
[QUOTE=tiger lily] But see, in truth she stopped protecting her own feelings a long time ago - probably after the third or fourth time she gave him some lame excuse for not going to lunch. She’s only kidding herself now if she thinks the continued dodging was having the same effect. What’s she’s done is hand over control of her feelings to some guy she barely knows. [/QUOTE] I see it as a matter of degree. If she thought it would feel better for her to give him the smack-down, she’d already have done it. She hasn’t, making the “polite brush” the lesser of two evils. Until now, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/71 "2007-03-03T13:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] I’m a guy, but I don’t understand why it’s so hard for a lady to tell an irritating dude to fuck off. [/QUOTE] Because for some women, they have been subject to very negative reinforcement that being anything but accomodating to mens’ feelings/dignity/pride makes them selfish/self-centered and a bitch. And if you’re a bitch, that’s an all encompassing indictment of who you are in all situations. You stop being a person with good points/bad points, good days and bad days and just become a bitch. If you’re a bitch, you deserve to be punished, whether that be punishment through social sanction or loss of opportunities or never being allowed to regain value as a good and worthy person. It’s very threatening for some women to stand up for their own feelings, desires, and values least they be branded as a bitch or god-help-them, selfish. I’ve seen this in many women, both those close to me and accquaintances. You have to understand that it has many times been reinforced to them that bad things will happen to them, bad perceptions of them will be formed, if they aren’t “nice”. It’s very anxiety producing and stressful for them to put their own needs first, even if they’re polite about it. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/72 "2007-03-03T14:01:40Z")
No, no. You don’t understand. When I ask you out to lunch, it’s because I’m really interested in _sex_. I’m being all discrete about it. So, now, how about lunch?? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/73 "2007-03-03T14:04:01Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] I’m a guy, but I don’t understand why it’s so hard for a lady to tell an irritating dude to fuck off. [/QUOTE] Because society still sees women who stand up for themselves as “frigid bitches”. A man who does so is assertive, a woman is a bitch. It’s an irritating double standard, but it’s still around. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/74 "2007-03-03T14:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] I’m a guy, but I don’t understand why it’s so hard for a lady to tell an irritating dude to fuck off. [/QUOTE] well, let’s see - she keeps saying ‘no’, and is told she’s not being forceful enough, I spell it out in no uncertain terms and was told here, maybe it was ‘too over the top’ , so naturally the asshole **had** to keep on behaving badly. just exactly how are we supposed to traverse this very delicate balance so the asshole actually hears and responds correctly to “no”? or maybe the attention should be on the assholes poor behavior instead? nah, that’d never work. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/75 "2007-03-03T14:34:08Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I thought that was the whole point of her post. That she knows she’s got to do the deed, but she’s protecting her own feelings by not having done so at this point. I think she’s up to “here” with him at this point. [/quote] Exactly. You see what I’m coming from. I _know_ that honesty and bluntness are long over due, everybody. I also know that I’m a wimp, so thanks to whomever for reminding me of that. These things are not in dispute. Just call me a chick with no spine cuz in these kind of situations, that’s exactly what I am. However, this dude deserves a pitting for pushing me out of my comfort zone by being a block-headed jerk. Many of you insist that my signals have not been clear enough to him, and I accept that. But any other reasonable person would have probably caught my drift after the second lameass excuse. Anyone who says rather curtly “I don’t take lunch” when you ask them out is making a pretty clear declaration you can’t negotiate around without being a dense asshole. There are no buts in that answer. “I don’t take lunch” applies to the past, present, and future. There are no cracks of hope to squeeze through unless you imagine those cracks. I am pitting him for being a dense asshole. Why am I such a wimp when it comes to this? I really haven’t a friggin’ clue. It just doesn’t make me feel good when I say harsh things to people, even when they are practically begging for it. This guy is being a jerk but he may not realize it. I’m not a confrontational person and I don’t want to create any unnecessary animosity. If I didn’t have to see him almost everyday, maybe this wouldn’t be such a concern. But I do and so it is. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/76 "2007-03-03T15:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=tiger lily] And again, the fact that this guy is not actually a co-worker but someone she sees around the building makes it much more likely that he isn’t repeatedly asking her to lunch just because he’s bored. [snip] If she can pull herself together long enough to be blunt and polite about not wanting to be asked to lunch, she’ll probably rid herself of this guy permanently. _Especially_ since she doesn’t work with him, the fact that he might be uncomfortable with what she says should not count for much now. Just tell him and be done with it, once and for all. [/QUOTE] Good stuff you’ve written here. May I inquire if you’ll be going to Member status when your Guestery is up? You’d be an asset to the Board. One thing I wonder, **ywtf** – are you working in a building large enough to have on-premises security personnel? Not that I’m saying bring them in now, but when you _do_ tell this guy to get lost, if he turns out-and-out stalkerish, can you enlist professional help in keeping him away from you and keeping you safe? Most likely when you finally hit him with the clue-by-four he’ll slink away, but you never know. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/77 "2007-03-03T16:07:34Z")
This situation actually reminds me of one a former coworker got into, though hers was sillier. She was the receptionist, so she answered the phones. When she’d get a telemarketing call, instead of saying “Do not call again,” she’d say, “So-and-so isn’t available.” So, you can imagine what happened. They called back and back and back and back and back and back. She ended up increasing her own workload by not being up front. Her situation was easier than the OP’s, and she still fell into it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/78 "2007-03-03T16:38:43Z")
Go to lunch. Explain you are too old for me so by my standards. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/79 "2007-03-03T17:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] One thing I wonder, **ywtf** – are you working in a building large enough to have on-premises security personnel? Not that I’m saying bring them in now, but when you _do_ tell this guy to get lost, if he turns out-and-out stalkerish, can you enlist professional help in keeping him away from you and keeping you safe? [/QUOTE] My building is high security so there are lot of guards around. But honestly, I don’t think it’ll come to where I’ll have to rely on them for anything. He’s annoying but I’m not afraid for my safety. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311/80 "2007-03-03T22:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] My building is high security so there are lot of guards around. But honestly, I don’t think it’ll come to where I’ll have to rely on them for anything. He’s annoying but I’m not afraid for my safety. [/QUOTE] Excellent! But I’m glad the security is there, just in the extremely unlikely case he surprises you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creeps-with-no-pride-leave-me-alone/394311.md?page=5)