# "Creepy men" at Walmart **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160 "2019-06-27T15:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/81 "2019-06-27T19:52:53Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > kayaker > 123 Main Street > Anytown, US 12345 > > DISTRICT COURT OF SDMB Land > > kayaker,Plaintiff, vs. DrDeth, Defendant) Case No.: 123456-123 COMPLAINT > > Plaintiff kayaker brings forth the following causes of action and alleges the following: 1. Plaintiff is an individual and resident of Anytown, USA. 2. Defendant is a corporation and at the time of this complaint, a resident of Anytown, USA. > > Plaintiff brings forth the following counts and allegations supporting his cause of action: COUNT 1 – NEGLIGENCE > Defendant was negligent in his posting behavior. > > DAMAGES > WHEREFORE, Plaintiff seeks compensatory damages in the amount of $6,000 together with attorney fees and court costs. > > Dated this 27th day of June, 2019 > > ETA: you have been served. :eek: :D:p:) But- you cant sue the undead. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/82 "2019-06-27T19:53:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Because it does. “by some creepy dude”. Does it mention going on line and looking up his criminal history? Come on, the only way you are saying that guy is “creepy” is based upon how he looks. There’s plenty of evidence of [men acting creepy in Walmart](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marietta-ohio-police-man-walmart-used-syringe-to-squirt-women-with-his-semen/) and [elsewhere](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/03/07/women-describe-being-followed-stalked-in-several-indiana-stores/23380038/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALjfaRR3DnO0s1aOAN407oZjYkEpzkn9tAn5SrjDpUy4-GRQzrdOijhSL2vhjMfJEzrpoXfXhPQMdo_gJb_O-OQ3GengCVbyOiIBRkNqCsu6A0GyHcz0lcAcz4hsMwIeYl1lH-ABQzUtvEYq-BbFAzq4VSwyQUmoX4AuSGW9U8z9) but somehow you’re hung up on “looks”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/83 "2019-06-27T19:53:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The fact that we’re all ultimately just wasting time because it’s just a messageboard discussion is one thing. But your repeated attempts to defend idiotically illogical arguments within the messageboard discussion are wasting our time in a less excusable fashion. Then perhaps, dont post here? 😛 I wouldnt miss you, nor Pm asking you come post, I promise. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/84 "2019-06-27T19:59:21Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > There’s plenty of evidence of [men acting creepy in Walmart](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marietta-ohio-police-man-walmart-used-syringe-to-squirt-women-with-his-semen/) and [elsewhere](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/03/07/women-describe-being-followed-stalked-in-several-indiana-stores/23380038/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALjfaRR3DnO0s1aOAN407oZjYkEpzkn9tAn5SrjDpUy4-GRQzrdOijhSL2vhjMfJEzrpoXfXhPQMdo_gJb_O-OQ3GengCVbyOiIBRkNqCsu6A0GyHcz0lcAcz4hsMwIeYl1lH-ABQzUtvEYq-BbFAzq4VSwyQUmoX4AuSGW9U8z9) but somehow you’re hung up on “looks”. I am sure there is. Just like there is plenty of evidence of black men committing crimes. However, the meme writer didnt mention any such behavior. If she had, I wouldn’t have posted. Instead she advocated assaulting people without them committing any crimes, based solely upon her judgement they were 'creepy" . So, no matter how many horror stories you post about bad things at Walmart,\*\* they have absolutely nothing fucking at all to do with that meme. \*\* Just like no matter how many stories you post about _other_ black men committing crimes- you can’t justify shooting that black youth because you thought he was “looking suspicious”. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/85 "2019-06-27T20:32:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > she advocated assaulting people without them committing any crimes, based solely upon her judgement they were 'creepy" . No mention of “looking creepy” = _acting_ creepy. Which everyone who isn’t you seems to get. And you’re still assuming that the “advocating assault” isn’t hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/86 "2019-06-27T20:34:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then perhaps, dont post here? 😛 > > I wouldnt miss you, nor Pm asking you come post, I promise. 😛 Is that your purpose? To silence women by this stupidity? To waste our time and effort? To get us to give up and quit? To annoy us into submission? And the SDMB wonders why women leave. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/87 "2019-06-27T20:34:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Come on, the only way you are saying that guy is “creepy” is based upon how he looks. In my experience, people are deemed ‘creepy’ based on behavior, not appearances. Leering is creepy; heavy breathing is creepy; not respecting personal boundaries is creepy; weird small talk is creepy. People who are just dirty or smelly don’t rate ‘creepy’ when they are minding their own business. Gross? Sure, they’ll get that. Disgusting? Unkempt? Unappealing? Sure, all those. But ‘creepy’ is as ‘creepy’ does. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/88 "2019-06-27T20:37:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, the meme writer didnt mention any such behavior. If she had, I wouldn’t have posted. Instead she advocated assaulting people without them committing any crimes, based solely upon her judgement they were 'creepy" . Again, **you don’t know what her judgement of “creepiness” was based on**. Maybe her criterion for men being “creepy” **does** in fact involve them committing crimes. We have no way of telling for certain, based on that single mention of “some creepy dude” in the meme. Since you didn’t seem to understand it the last three times: > [@Kimstu](#): > > You are reading a reference to “being followed at a Walmart by some creepy dude” and **deliberately imposing on that your own interpretation** of “seeing a dude at a Walmart who looks creepy”. It **might** mean “seeing a dude at a Walmart who looks creepy”, or it might mean “being followed at a Walmart by some dude who’s creeping on me in an outright criminal fashion”, or it might mean anything in between. > [@DrDeth](#): > > So, no matter how many horror stories you post about bad things at Walmart,\*\* they have absolutely nothing fucking at all to do with that meme. \*\* Once again: **you don’t know that**. All you know is that the author of the meme didn’t **explicitly** define “creepiness” as unmistakably intimidating, lewd or criminal behavior. But given that so many of the online stories about “being followed at a Walmart by some creepy dude” **do** involve descriptions of unmistakably intimidating, lewd or criminal behavior, it seems fairly likely that that’s what she did intend. Certainly, it makes much more sense than your peculiar notion that she was advocating hitting dudes with cans of beans merely for “looking creepy”. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Then perhaps, dont post here? It’s a tempting thought, but unfortunately, the mission of fighting ignorance includes resisting your repeated attempts to defend idiotically illogical arguments. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/89 "2019-06-27T21:01:56Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Is that your purpose? To silence women by this stupidity? To waste our time and effort? To get us to give up and quit? To annoy us into submission? > > And the SDMB wonders why women leave. Silence? \*She \*was the one who said i was wasting _her_ time.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/90 "2019-06-27T21:07:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’re being insensitive to (alleged) stalkers with legume allergies. Nice. There’s a whole lotta beans / violence/ internet-toughguygal-ism going on in here. Doubt anyone will have fiber issues this week. Walmart people maybe creepy as f-ck, but its you folks that make me glad I shop over the internet. How in hell do you stay out of jail? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/91 "2019-06-27T21:07:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Is that your purpose? To silence women by this stupidity? To waste our time and effort? To get us to give up and quit? To annoy us into submission? > > And the SDMB wonders why women leave. But you know what? If you are going to change this from advocating violence against innocent persons into a women’s rights thing, you win. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/92 "2019-06-27T21:11:27Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > Walmart people maybe creepy as f-ck, but its you folks that make me glad I shop over the internet. I dunno about creepy but they do have [a reputation for being strange](http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/93 "2019-06-27T21:23:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Silence? \*She \*was the one who said i was wasting _her_ time. That was **Jimmy Chitwood** who said that, actually, though I agreed with him. In any case, criticizing someone’s posts is not the same thing as explicitly discouraging them from posting at all, although I acknowledge that in my case both approaches tend to have about the same level of effect, which is to say zero. > [@DrDeth](#): > > If you are going to change this from advocating violence against innocent persons into a women’s rights thing, you win. :rolleyes: The whole point here is that **you completely made up** the “advocating violence against innocent persons” interpretation. Nobody in this thread is in favor of advocating violence against innocent persons. And you have shown no evidence whatsoever that the author of the meme advocating violence against “creepy dudes” following people in Walmarts was including **innocent** creepy dudes in her condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/94 "2019-06-27T21:29:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But you know what? If you are going to change this from advocating violence against innocent persons into a women’s rights thing, you win. You may want to reread my posts in this thread. This time for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/95 "2019-06-27T21:36:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But you know what? If you are going to change this from advocating violence against innocent persons into a women’s rights thing, you win. But you know what? If you’re going to take a hyperbolic facebook comment that’s at worst an empty threat to a specific category of people exhibiting generally undesirable behavior, and react to it as if it’s an existential threat to your personal shopping outings, **congratulations, you’re the creepy man at WalMart**. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/96 "2019-06-27T21:49:34Z")
I will say that the meme in question is a good idea. First, because **DrDeth** is completely wrong about it being about looks. Women don’t think someone is creepy because they didn’t shave, or are wearing a wife beater. Women think men are creepy because they act creepy. Secondly, the creepers are predators, and they have a fine tuned sense of where the lines are, and more importantly, who are prey that will allow them to cross over those lines. They are getting their jollies by creeping women out. And the best defense against this type of creep is to be mentally prepared to beat the ^&\*% out of the person if they get too close, or if you see them doing something they shouldn’t do. You know why? Because just being prepared to do that will change most people’s body language from prey body language to predator language. And predators will not mess with other predators. I believe that there is enough anecdotal data from interviews with sexual predators, plus statistics about who gets raped, to bear out this line of reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/97 "2019-06-27T22:04:05Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > And the best defense against this type of creep is to be mentally prepared to beat the ^&\*% out of the person if they get too close, or if you see them doing something they shouldn’t do. First, as advocated at a workplace anti-harassment training several years ago, put them in a spotlight. For example: wandering hands? Grab a hand, hold it high, loudly proclaim that you found said hand about your body, and ask if anyone knows who it belongs to. Then step it up if the sudden attention doesn’t put 'em off. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/98 "2019-06-27T22:27:30Z")
**DrDeth** , to quell your worries, try [this](https://www.wikihow.com/Not-Be-Creepy), or [this](https://medium.com/@chazhutton/how-to-not-be-a-creep-as-told-by-women-427630529132), or [this](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-ooze/201707/how-avoid-creeping-women-out) or enrol in an etiquette class, or call your mom and ask her what you missed, because it is nigh-certain she warned you against _all_ of the behaviors various women cited in this thread complained of as creepy. If that’s too hard, let me boil it down: be reasonably clean, move purposefully to get your shopping done, don’t stare, keep your hands visible, and keep your distance. Four feet is beyond the reach of most cooking sprays, and allows you to duck thrown vegetables. Problem solved. To quell your concerns about the potential injustice of it all, I believe that it is only a certain class of men who entertain the crack-brained notion that, short of actual assault, they are entitled to behave any way they want toward others, especially women and children, with impunity. As far as I’m concerned, the soft thump of a can of Libby’s best between the eyes falls on the “discouraging admonition” end of the violence scale, and should be presumed permissable unless proven otherwise. Besides, it was clearly a humorous reminder that retail employees are apt to be less than helpful, and that women may not always rely on them to deal with creepy guys. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/99 "2019-06-27T22:32:38Z")
Shaming someone will work on most people, and your willingness to do so will come through in your body language. However, keeping violence in the back of your mind as an option will also come through in your body language, and will stop those who would just wait until you were alone to attack you. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160/100 "2019-06-27T22:34:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s all very nice. But it’s like comparing the man who shots two armed black assailants breaking into his house, as opposed to the man who killed a innocent black youth who was “acting suspicious”. > > NOTHING at all, \*nothing whatsoever \*in the meme indicated anything other thna “being creepy”. So you can bring in these horror stories- but they have nothing whatsoever to do with the advice given to assault a guy for merely being creepy. > > And I will tell you ladies- that your “creepy radar” is pretty damn worthless. I had to read thru a bunch of fBI cases studies about pedophiles (horrible, nauseating stuff), and in every single case the Mom was quoted as saying that the kiddie rapist “seemed like such a nice man” , never, ever “well, I thought he was creepy from the moment I saw him”. Pedophiles dont _act_ or\* look\* creepy, they\* are \*creepy. > > Too many girls have been dated raped by a “cute guy” who slipped them a date rape drug. > > So, _creepy radar_ or \*momma bear radar \*is pretty much useless. I know Kimstu already called this out for the logical fallacy it is, but I think this really gets at the heart of the matter. DrDeth thinks women are idiots. He cites as evidence the fact that we don’t recognize every single threat in time to protect ourselves or others, which conveniently also makes us responsible for violent acts committed against us or other vulnerable individuals, rather than the perpetrators–or the men who also failed to notice the pedophile or rapist under the “nice man” exterior. (It’s only the moms he quotes, not the dads. Why do they get a pass?) But failing to detect some threats doesn’t mean you’re wrong when you do perceive one. If anything, it’s all the more reason to pay attention when you do hear your inner alarms. By way of analogy: I’m a scuba diver, and one of the risks you learn about is getting carbon monoxide in your tank. This can happen as a result of a car engine idling outside near the compressor’s intake, or as a result of lubricants in the compressor getting overheated. Carbon monoxide is of course odorless, but the other byproducts of combustion may have an odor. There’s a lively debate about whether all divers ought to test their air with a CO analyzer, but there’s a consensus that if your air smells funny, you shouldn’t dive with it. Violent intentions, like CO, cannot be detected by the human senses. Unlike CO, there’s no objective test to establish the presence of violent intentions before you actually get hurt. But there is sometimes an accompanying smell, or other sensory warning, that’s worth heeding. We do not owe it to the men of this world to wait to be assaulted before taking steps to protect ourselves. Literally no one–not even the hyperbolic meme you’re complaining about–suggested assaulting someone who merely looks a certain way. Even the original meme mentioned turning around and verbally confronting the creep, and calling police while in the store, before getting to the bean throwing and belt strangling. The clear implication is to fight back when threatened, when confrontation hasn’t worked, rather than relying on the minimum-wage store clerks to handle the situation. You can bet that the women this meme speaks to, and who are responding to it, have already thought of walking away and hoping the guy leaves them alone. I promise you every one of us who has been followed has made four right turns in a row to be sure. This is not about women freaking out at the mere presence of unattractive men in public places. This is about women facing real risks and having genuine, justified fears about them, and men like you refusing to believe our experiences could possibly be legitimate. But I bet you wouldn’t dive with that smelly tank. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-men-at-walmart/836160.md?page=6)