# Creepy, offensive, or just plain unsettling subtexts in lighthearted sitcoms. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320 "2007-03-02T17:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/221 "2007-03-08T17:57:27Z")
It wasn’t just the marriage…his witchiphobia spilled over to the kids, too. IIRC, Tabitha had abilities but it wasn’t until Samantha’s father came over and encourage the son (Aaron?) that it was discovered he had magical abilities too. Samantha gave Darren a lecture likening to finding out if a child had a musical ability, and why would you want to crush that. Yeah, why Darren? It’s like he was ashamed of his wife, the way he kept trying to hide her abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/222 "2007-03-08T18:00:27Z")
[QUOTE=Mama Zappa] Both of them should have been turned into frogs. [/QUOTE] Only if you have [consent](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=410401) from both of them. Otherwise it’s assault. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/223 "2007-03-08T21:36:38Z")
It was Adam, not Aaron. (slightly embarassed that I know this). ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/224 "2007-03-09T02:54:45Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] It wasn’t just the marriage…his witchiphobia spilled over to the kids, too. IIRC, Tabitha had abilities but it wasn’t until Samantha’s father came over and encourage the son (Aaron?) that it was discovered he had magical abilities too. Samantha gave Darren a lecture likening to finding out if a child had a musical ability, and why would you want to crush that. Yeah, why Darren? It’s like he was ashamed of his wife, the way he kept trying to hide her abilities. [/QUOTE] Dunno if they said as much on the show, but is it possible that he wanted to keep her witchiness hidden because he thought the Government™ might take her away and do testing and experiments to figure out what gives her her witchyness? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/225 "2007-03-09T04:48:46Z")
_Fraiser_ was a great show, until the last season. Then Niles (who had married an on-air person to replace the unseen Maris) left his new bride for Daphne (who cancelled her scheduled marriage to some British fellow) and ran off together. So two broken lives, but Niles and Daphne live happy ever after. That is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/226 "2007-03-09T04:59:41Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] _Fraiser_ was a great show, until the last season. Then Niles (who had married an on-air person to replace the unseen Maris) left his new bride for Daphne (who cancelled her scheduled marriage to some British fellow) and ran off together. So two broken lives, but Niles and Daphne live happy ever after. That is all that matters. [/QUOTE] Well, look at it the other way: They stay with their spouses and continue to pine for each other, and we instead have two poisoned marriages. Did anyone mention the constant insults and jokes at Maris’s expense Niles and Fraser tossed back and forth on the show? We never even see the woman, so it’s entirely possible that they could be exaggerating or just making it up out of mean spiritedness, but we’d never be able to know. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/227 "2007-03-09T05:06:17Z")
Nope, i cannot get passed the idea that they lied and hurt people so they could get a little nookie, then ran off together. It is really upsetting (to me at least). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/228 "2007-03-09T05:58:35Z")
Did anybody complaining about “The Honeymooners” ever actually WATCH it? For crying out loud, Alice is the absolute ruler of the Kramden household! She gets all the good insult lines! Once she puts her foot down, Ralph can’t do anything but stammer incoherently. Ralph’s threats are empty and feeble. As often as not, he says “Bang zoom” or “To the moon” after Alice has left the room, long after he’s lost the argument (which he ALWAYS did). ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/229 "2007-03-09T06:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=NDP] Darrin is middle class (perhaps one generation removed from working class) while Samantha comes from an aristocratic family of idle rich. Using magic to get or accomplish something on the show is the same as using unearned wealth and privilege. [/QUOTE] So… you’re saying it _is_ about Jews? Also, **astorian** , get out of here with your pesky facts! What do you think this is, General Questions? ---
**Author:** ![Daylight\_Saving](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Daylight\_Saving](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylight_Saving)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/230 "2007-03-09T07:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] One show I could never stand was Laverne and Shirley–why would anyone want Puggy and Squeek (or whatever their names were) anywhere near them? [/QUOTE] No one has corrected this? Lenny and Squiggy. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/231 "2007-03-09T08:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] I remember this show! It was rather clever…large puppets or something, right? Is it on DVD? [/QUOTE] As a previous poster mentioned, they were costumes, but the head portions were completely animatronic, and still look amazing imo. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/232 "2007-03-09T12:08:41Z")
In one episode of _That Girl_ she gets her fingers tuck in a bowling ball. Hilarity ensues as she takes muscle relaxants to remove said bowling ball. (It remains stuck but somehow she ends up at a formal dinner while whacked out.) Even as a kid I thought that one was creepy. The entire premise of the short-lived “Occasional Wife.” The downstairs (male) neighbor needs the upstairs (female) neighbor to pretend to be his wife from time to time to deceive people. If remade today, we could call it “Occasional Beard.” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/233 "2007-03-09T13:11:39Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] Did anybody complaining about “The Honeymooners” ever actually WATCH it? For crying out loud, Alice is the absolute ruler of the Kramden household! She gets all the good insult lines! Once she puts her foot down, Ralph can’t do anything but stammer incoherently. Ralph’s threats are empty and feeble. As often as not, he says “Bang zoom” or “To the moon” after Alice has left the room, long after he’s lost the argument (which he ALWAYS did). [/QUOTE] I do remember one episode, where Ralph delivered a “Right in the kisser” line to Alice’s face. The look she gave Ralph showed what an empty threat that was. If anyone in the Kramden household was in danger of life and limb, it was Ralph. Alice could have taken him without breaking a sweat. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/234 "2007-03-09T14:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Did anyone mention the constant insults and jokes at Maris’s expense Niles and Fraser tossed back and forth on the show? We never even see the woman, so it’s entirely possible that they could be exaggerating or just making it up out of mean spiritedness, but we’d never be able to know. [/QUOTE] The way I remember it. The characters usually weren’t making jokes. Especially Niles. Usually what they said was supposed to be literally true in the Frasier world. That’s why we could never see Maris because no actress could play that part without a heft dose of CGI. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/235 "2007-03-09T14:41:16Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] _Fraiser_ was a great show, until the last season. Then Niles (who had married an on-air person to replace the unseen Maris) left his new bride for Daphne (who cancelled her scheduled marriage to some British fellow) and ran off together. So two broken lives, but Niles and Daphne live happy ever after. That is all that matters. [/QUOTE] Hey, c’mon! That’s one of the hoariest devices in romance stories! I don’t recall anyone who saw _The Graduate_ crying for Elaine’s jilted-at-the-altar groom! (Nor for Mrs. Robinson, either.) ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/236 "2007-03-09T16:50:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Hey, c’mon! That’s one of the hoariest devices in romance stories! I don’t recall anyone who saw _The Graduate_ crying for Elaine’s jilted-at-the-altar groom! (Nor for Mrs. Robinson, either.) [/QUOTE] Hey! I did. Well ok not literally. But I felt more for her than Ben. Most interestesting character in the movie. And her groom had been established as a jerk. And as far as Fraiser (er, I don’t think the groom was British) yeah they screwed over there intendeds, in a pretty horrible way but this was aknowleged. And I wouldn’t want to be married to someone who wanted to be married to someone else. Now that would be creepy. Better to pull the band-aid off all at once. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/237 "2007-03-09T17:19:55Z")
Since some mention was made of the Smurfs and other cartoons, I must direct your attention to comments recently made by [Geena Davis](http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/08/1443236) > [@Geena Davis](#): > > Do you remember the kinds of stuff that they made for us, for kids, in the oldie old days? Let’s see, the first animation, of course, was Disney’s Minnie Mouse and – where is she? I’m pushing the button – Daisy Duck, who didn’t really do much at all, except ask to go shopping, I think. There were a lot of Hanna-Barbera cartoons – Magilla Gorilla, Wally Gator, George of the Jungle – virtually no female characters. I had a vague recollection that Yogi Bear had a girlfriend, and I searched and searched, and I finally found her, Cindy Bear, as you all remember. Winnie the Pooh has been around for a long time and still is, has nine characters, and one of them is female: Kanga. I couldn’t find a picture on the internet of her alone, without Roo in her pocket. And if you think about it, really, isn’t she sort of half a character? Kanga, Roo, you know, she doesn’t do things on her own, really. On the Looney Tunes website, they list twelve characters, and only one of them is female, but it’s the great one. It’s the one you all love and remember the best: Granny. She’s the one who owns Tweety, and she has to leave so that the story can happen. But, by far, my absolute favorite is the Smurfs. You remember the Smurfs? Smurfette. This was fairly recent. This was like from the ’80s, 1980 to 1990. The website explains that there were a hundred Smurfs, and originally there were no female Smurfs. Not sure how that happened. But eventually they added Smurfette. And this is how she originally looked. They describe her as having stringy hair and ugly eyelashes. She was created by an evil wizard to destroy the Smurfs. But then – I’m not kidding – Papa Smurf, after a successful operation of plastic smurfery, turned her into the blonde bombshell that we all know and love. And it notes that after her appearance improved, the Smurfs accepted and loved her. OK. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/238 "2007-03-09T17:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Dunno if they said as much on the show, but is it possible that he wanted to keep her witchiness hidden because he thought the Government™ might take her away and do testing and experiments to figure out what gives her her witchyness? [/QUOTE] _Darrin_: Larry, why would there be restraints on an autopsy table? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/239 "2007-03-09T17:50:48Z")
[QUOTE=MonkeyMule] Therefore Brunettes are tools of our white balding oppresssors. Excuse me while I break up with my really hot (but dark haired) girlfriend. THE SPY!! :mad: [/QUOTE] As a white, balding oppressor, I am hereby issuing a recall on all raven-haired beauties. Email me for the address. They must be in original condition. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320/240 "2007-03-09T18:50:52Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] Hey! I did. Well ok not literally. But I felt more for her than Ben. Most interestesting character in the movie. And her groom had been established as a jerk. And as far as Fraiser (er, I don’t think the groom was British) yeah they screwed over there intendeds, in a pretty horrible way but this was aknowleged. And I wouldn’t want to be married to someone who wanted to be married to someone else. Now that would be creepy. Better to pull the band-aid off all at once. [/QUOTE] Daphne was british, Donny “The Shark” was a Jewish Lawyer (Saul Reubenstein). Niles’s wife at the time was Mel, a plastic surgeon played by the kinda scary Jane Adams. Yes, I knew those from memory. How cool am I? -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-offensive-or-just-plain-unsettling-subtexts-in-lighthearted-sitcoms/394320.md?page=13)