# Creepy Sauna Troll, Go Away! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229 "2001-09-07T14:11:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/21 "2001-09-08T03:14:00Z")
Yo, grienspace: Gobear said: > [@](#): > > WTF is wrong with these men? Do they think they stand a chance of picking anybody up? If you’re going to be 50+ AND obese AND fem AND drunk, you might want to think about not acting creepily predatory. > > **If I were single, I would reject a good-looking guy who behaved that way, let alone someone who is heavily challenged in looks and personality** Emphasis mine. –John ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/22 "2001-09-08T04:25:07Z")
:: Tap Tap Tap Is this thing on? :: So, is picking up guys a thing that’s common in sauna’s? What part of the sauna experience has made this so? I always assumed it was a simple steam bath, not a pick-up joint. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/23 "2001-09-08T06:09:56Z")
picking up a guy with your dick is a very difficult thing to do. Unless, of course, you’ve been working out, having your penis lift dumbbells and such, in which case I guess it depends on the number of reps you’re planning on. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/24 "2001-09-08T15:55:45Z")
> [@](#): > > What if it was some young, phsically fit lech showing you his glorious 9 incher! Would you be offended then? (I’m picturing the female equivalent Well, it’s not the body so much (although young and fit is more attractive than old and flabby) but the attitude. A guy who acts like a predatory sleaze–“Hey, I wanna suck your dick”–will get rejected in a picosecond, no matter how big his biceps are. If a guy wants to get me horizontal, he’s going to have to talk to me like a person, not a target. That is the crux of my beef with trolls (old, ugly, fat men). The jizzskillet in the sauna didn’t see me as a person, but as something to consume. If he had cruised me politely, I would have rejected him, but in a nice way, and I wouldn’t have been angry. I know this is weird, but for me, the soul makes the body sexy, not the other way around. I’ll take a tubby guy with a warm, generous spirit, like **BF** , over a dull, self-centered muscle guy. **BF** remembers our anniversary; he knows I prefer chocolate ice cream over vanilla; he sits through police chase shows on Fox with me, even though he hates them. He makes me feel like I’m the most special guy on earth. Russell Crowe himself can’t compete with that. I’ve had tricks (gayspeak for a short-term encounter), but every man I have ever been with has felt he was loved and he was special, if only for a night. I have never used a man as an object. The troll in the sauna ought to learn that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/25 "2001-09-08T16:10:14Z")
Yo \*\*Yo Yue Han \*\* I just suspect that a reaction to an **initial** come-on by a person of preferential sex and physical desirability would be far more receptive. The good looking initiator would never have to or feel inclined to resort to behavior that most people would find offensive. To us, the offensive behavior is counter to common sense, but there must be a reason. Perhaps some previous success with some of those who are masochistic and would actually enjoy submitting themselves to such offense. When I was a teenager, I was hit on by more guys than girls, but never felt the need to go on about it like **Gobear** Now that I think about it, the encounters were all very similar to the sauna episode,(NO HARM DONE) and all the men were well past their prime. If I, a heterosexual, can have such tolerance for these “washed up queens”, what does that say for you guys? 50+ and getting better ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/26 "2001-09-08T16:32:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > but every man I have ever been with has felt he was loved and he was special, if only for a night. I have never used a man as an object. The troll in the sauna ought to learn that. Damn, why do all the good ones have to be gay! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/27 "2001-09-08T16:52:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Damn, why do all the good ones have to be gay! \*\* _gloat_ 😛 As an aside, I know that **gobear** wasn’t focusing simply on the overweight when he ranted about the troll, but I still felt a twinge of discomfort…it’s very, very difficult being a heavy gay man. Especially if you’re very heavy. I’ve managed to turn my self-image around almost 180 degrees since May, but I’m still more than a little insecure about my weight. I agree, though, that the predatory thing is a turn-off. I censor signals of interest or attraction a lot, almost to the point of not acknowledging the presence of other people at all, for fear of looking like a slobbering troll. I’ve been trolled…I suppose they think someone that looks like me will be desperate enough to give them a tumble. Sorry…that was a backslide… jayjay ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/28 "2001-09-08T17:20:36Z")
/slight hijack/ I just read in the Cleveland Free Times that, in Ohio, there is a little known law on the books which has recently risen to the surface and seems to be allowing the harrassing of gay men. Seems that Ohio’s “importuning” law, makes it a misdemeanor for one of the same sex to exhibit unwelcome sexual advances to another. There doesn’t have to be any contact made, just the unwelcome spoken words can do one in. However, it is not against the law for heterosexual unwelcome advances to be exhibited. IANAL, but I can see all SORTS of ways that can be twisted around to hurt my gay friends. /slight hijack endeth/ ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/29 "2001-09-09T00:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by grienspace \* > If I, a heterosexual, can have such tolerance for these “washed up queens”, what does that say for you guys?_\* Leave me out of this, if you don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/30 "2001-09-09T01:39:57Z")
I’m sorry if you thought I included you **matt\_mcl** The “you guys” refers to the gay posters who have expressed revulsion and anger towards “gay trolls” in this thread, not gay men everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/31 "2001-09-09T02:16:51Z")
Why shouldn’t people have revulsion for trolls and perverts and creeps? It’s annoying to have someone look upon me as a sex object. I don’t care if it’s gay, straight, whatever we’re talking about it. Being a lecher is pathetic and annoying. ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/32 "2001-09-09T02:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > I know this is weird, but for me, the soul makes the body sexy, not the other way around. I’ll take a tubby guy with a warm, generous spirit, like **BF** , over a dull, self-centered muscle guy. If the above is weird, I am weird because it’s certainly the way I feel. The predatory nature the sort of come on’s mentioned in this thread are not simply unwanted, but unsettling and scary too. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/33 "2001-09-09T03:53:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Now that I think about it, the encounters were all very similar to the sauna episode,(NO HARM DONE) and all the men were well past their prime. If I, a heterosexual, can have such tolerance for these “washed up queens”, what does that say for you guys? Being gay does not make a person more tolerant. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/34 "2001-09-09T04:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > This was a _pleasant_ unpleasant experience. I had one guy stick his tongue down my throat. :rolleyes: It is because of this I have a very firm rule of “don’t go where you’re not wanted.” \*\* If some strange guy sticks his tongue down your throat you should feel free to clean his clock. I don’t see how I could consider that anything but sexual assault. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/35 "2001-09-09T04:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **MGibson** _ > > If some strange guy sticks his tongue down your throat you should feel free to clean his clock. Who says I didn’t? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/36 "2001-09-09T09:54:39Z")
Honey, I have a friend who calls himself an old washed up queen and says that he is too old to play pretty and dress up anymore. So, his husband bought him a bar. Marys on 2nd. Damn it! That reminds me he promised me some of his old costume jewlery. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/37 "2001-09-09T15:45:02Z")
**Grienspace** , let me spell it out for you so you can understand. I go to a gym to work out. I go in, I lift, I do 30 minutes on the treadmill, I go to the sauna to sweat out the dirt in my pores and to heat my muscles. **I do not go to the gym to have some creep wave his weiner at me**. > [@](#): > > Now that I think about it, the encounters were all very similar to the sauna episode,(NO HARM DONE) and all the men were well past their prime. If I, a heterosexual, can have such tolerance for these “washed up queens”, what does that say for you guys? > > 50+ and getting better Who says a guy in his 50’s is a “washed-up old queen”? I’ve met many a sexy man 50+, and I plan to be a hot silver daddy myself when the time comes. Leave your personal insecurities out of this. My point is **I am not a target, or a piece of meat to consume!** If a guy wants to cruise me, waving his dick at me isn’t the ideal method to make my acquaintance. I’m not against cruising in the sauna, but why not compliment my appearance, since I work very hard at it? Why not ask me my name? Treat me like a person, not an object. Rubbing the crotch and staring is **creepy**! You also missed that the guy was wearing street clothes, which is a major no-no in a sauna (there’s even a sign!). He wasn’t there to work out; he was there to look for dick. I have responded in the past to guys in the gym who have cruised me in a polite way, and I’m certainly not above some discreet fooling around in the sauna, but a gym is NOT a sex club. If your only reason to come to the gym is to suck dick, you’d be better off going to the Crew Club, a DC establishment set up specifically for anonymous sex. > [@](#): > > It’s very, very difficult being a heavy gay man. Especially if you’re very heavy. I’ve managed to turn my self-image around almost 180 degrees since May, but I’m still more than a little insecure about my weight. I agree, though, that the predatory thing is a turn-off. **Jay-Jay** , you’re right that the gay world can be a cruel place. At JR’s, a popular gay bar in DC, if you’re not an A&F wearing twink, you might as well be invisible. If you go to the DC Eagle, however, all the leathermen and bearlovers will make you feel like Britney Spears. Guys who wouldn’t give me the time of day would be buying you drinks and scribbling their phone numbers. So it’s just a matter of environment. After all, **some** body is buying all those copies of **Bear, American Grizzly,** and **Bulk Male**! 'sides, you know I dig ya! ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/38 "2001-09-09T16:01:32Z")
Mind you, any talk of cruising guys is purely theoretical because **BF** is my one and only. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/39 "2001-09-09T17:47:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > A guy walks in with street clothes on, which is both weird and against the gym rules. He is 50+, gray-haired, and grossly obese. I ignore him. > > He says, “Come here often?” (I have never seen this guy before) I mumble something and go back to ignoring him. **gobear** , I missed the point about street clothes,(which presumably could even mean shorts and T-shirt). I did react to your negative description of the man including the adjective “grossly”. Your self described attitude and initial response were contemptuous, showing a lack of respect to a complete stranger making an initial friendly gesture **prior** to any negative behavior. Such a reaction on your part to his initial friendly foray would precluded further niceties such as compliments and asking your name. I suggest perhaps that this grossly fat old man was returning your contempt with some of his own. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229/40 "2001-09-09T19:47:57Z")
[quote] Your self described attitude and initial response were contemptuous, showing a lack of respect to a complete stranger making an initial friendly gesture prior to any negative behavior [quote] In the OP, I wrote, “He says, “Come here often?” (I have never seen this guy before) I mumble something and go back to ignoring him.” I replied with some mindless pleasantry and continued to mind my own business. I don’t chat to guys pissing next to me, I don’t converse with guys in the shower, and I don’t chat with guys when I’m fucking NAKED! “Come here often?” That’s a lame pickup line. If he had asked about the retirement of Darrell Green or Marty Schottenheimer’s coaching, then we might have had something to talk about. Maybe it’s hard for you to believe, but I was not born yesterday. I know when someone tries to cruise me and when someone is just being friendly. Given his subsequent behavior, I’d say my initial assessment was spot on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creepy-sauna-troll-go-away/80229.md?page=3)