# Creoturd Ken Ham whines again about those awful atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350 "2013-08-15T21:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pythonzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@pythonzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pythonzzz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/1 "2013-08-15T21:00:02Z")
Aww, poor widdle Kenny-baby is having another hissy: > [@](#): > > ``` > The Chutzpah of Unethical Atheists—But We Actually Understand Why > > You probably know that word “chutzpah.” (A similar term is “audacity.”) I am using that Yiddish word to describe the actions of an atheist who visited our Creation Museum last week. He got in free by cheating, toured the museum, and afterwards proceeded to blast the museum on his blog—a blog which is devoted to, as he calls it, “debunking Christianity.” > > How did he get in free? He played on the generosity and sympathy of a museum staff member. The man came to the museum desk and declared that he only had a short time to spend at the museum and did not have the money in his budget to pay for a ticket. Now, he did admit that he was skeptical of the museum’s content. But the museum staff member, wanting to reach out to a person who expressed a financial need and also hoping the museum might challenge his thinking, allowed him in at no charge. We very much want skeptics to visit. > > Conveniently, though, what didn’t he tell her? Well, that he was really at the museum as an atheist who was wanting to go through the museum and then would be blasting it—without having to pay. We have since learned that the man has written five books in the past few years and advertises himself as a speaker against Christianity—I doubt very much he is the pauper he pretended to be when he came here. > > But coming here under false pretenses and getting in free doesn’t really upset me. Why? First, because he did hear God’s Word throughout the museum, and “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). Perhaps this man will repent of his sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Second, because he is an atheist, this man is only acting consistently with his worldview. I understand his actions, though I certainly don’t condone them, for stealing is against all sorts of biblical teachings, including one of the Ten Commandments. But you see, he has no absolute standard by which he lives his life. So why is it even wrong in his secular worldview to misrepresent himself to us? He can justify being a cheater. > > So I understand his mindset. I really do. If there is no God, how could an atheist ever say what is right or wrong? By what standard can he make that determination? If each person decides for himself what is right or wrong, then he can argue that what he did at the museum was not wrong. Secular atheistic humanism is a belief system about what we supposedly came from (nothing), what our purpose is in life (nothing), and what happens when we die (which again is nothing). Those who believe this way are only demonstrating the truth of Romans 1—they are suppressing the truth of God’s existence in unrighteousness. They claim to be wise, but Romans 1 states that they have become fools. > > It also did not make me mad when I learned that as this atheist was leaving the museum, he left a business card with our guest services staff member—the one who had been so kind to him. The card had the words “debunking Christianity” on it along with his website address. Now he wanted her to know what he was really doing at the museum, as if he was gloating, “Ha! I deceived you.” But this behavior was consistent with his atheism. > > I recently posted a Facebook comment about this man, with the title, “Atheist debunking—or an advertisement for the Creation Museum?” Like most atheists who write negatively about their museum experience, he simply described some of the exhibits and, with lots of hand-waving, just said we were wrong. His lengthy piece really offered no real rebuttals of the scientific displays. He mocked the exhibits more than anything. (He did seem to be impressed with our new Insectorium’s collection of insects, though.) But I’m not upset with him for another reason: the man seems to have a lot of followers (based on the number of comments he is receiving about his blog against us), and so I see his blog post as an advertisement for the Creation Museum. > > This atheist certainly saw and heard God’s Word in the museum, and we should pray for him. I understand that he comes from a church background, but apparently he did not receive any effective apologetics teaching, or perhaps it may have been weak teaching. I don’t know. So let’s pray for this atheist, that God will use His Word to convict him and lead him to salvation. > > At the same time, I am not going to link to his blog here and give him some satisfaction that we are driving more web traffic to him. Of course, with a little effort you can find it, and I’m sure atheists will be linking to it and his numbers will grow. But for any atheists reading this blog post, I urge them to consider this AiG article on why atheism is irrational. > > ``` so here’s the link: [http://debunkingchristianity.blogsp](http://debunkingchristianity.blogsp)…-museum-in.html > [@](#): > > ``` > Meanwhile, because of cheaters like this man, we are greatly tightening up our procedures to make sure that people like this don’t take advantage of our generosity just so they can mock us. Actually, this museum incident shows he did not come to the Creation Museum with any other intent but to mock and speak against Christianity. Even before his visit, his atheistic, blind-faith religion had already biased what he would write about the Creation Museum! > > We’ve had a number of instances of atheists not telling the truth (for them there is no such thing as “truth” anyway) in order to take advantage of us at the Creation Museum. For instance, TV commentator and comedian Bill Maher and his video crew lied and broke the rules to sneak into AiG. Here is what I wrote about that incident in 2007. http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2007/02/07/hbos-bill-maher-and-the-plot-to-deceive-aig/ And then there was this incident in 2010. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/02/15/crashing-date-night And there have been other instances. Actually, the atheists’ behavior just illustrates Romans 1 over and over again—they work to suppress the truth because they know in their hearts that God created (Romans 1: 18–19). > > ``` Squeal, squeal, squeal l’il Hamboner. Kenny needs a nappy and a pacifier shoved up his rectal orifice. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/2 "2013-08-15T21:04:23Z")
So the Creationist Museum is for Christians only? Now that’s chutpah. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/3 "2013-08-15T21:05:33Z")
I can understand not wanting to give creationists money, but I think I would have paid and just claimed it as a business/research expense. Your link to the atheist’s blog is bad. Here’s the real one: [Debunking Christianity: An Atheist Visits the Creation Museum in Kentucky And Tells All](http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.ca/2013/08/an-atheist-visits-creation-museum-in.html) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/4 "2013-08-15T21:23:43Z")
The blogger is a bad writer, and visiting the museum under false pretenses to get in free was bad form. ---
**Author:** ![pythonzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@pythonzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pythonzzz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/5 "2013-08-15T21:25:29Z")
TY, Bryan. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/6 "2013-08-15T21:38:16Z")
> [@bup](#): > > . . . visiting the museum under false pretenses to get in free was bad form. But fuckin’ **awesome** nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/7 "2013-08-15T22:00:38Z")
Here’s my problem with atheists on the internet. Too many just look around and _dig_ for shit to be offended about. Who the Hell is Ken Ham? I don’t know, and I don’t really care. Well, after looking him up, I suppose I do know who he is now, but still. I just don’t understand why the OP _cares_. Also, if you are going to make fun of this crazy Australian dude with a website, at least put some effort into it. **pythonzzz** didn’t even make a point in his OP. It’s just “hey! look at this!”, without any content. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/8 "2013-08-15T22:00:55Z")
No, actually, I don’t think it was all that “awesome” of the guy to do that. He really DID lie, and cheat (assuming the Christian dude’s account is all true) and that makes all other atheists look bad. Many hard-core religious folks assume that no religion = no morals, and so him acting unethically just reinforced that assumption more solidly. In other news, I just defended the guys who set up the Creation Museum. I need a shower. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/9 "2013-08-15T22:01:22Z")
Only goes to prove that atheists have no morals or ethics whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/10 "2013-08-15T22:05:42Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > . . . In other news, I just defended the guys who set up the Creation Museum. I need a shower. ☹ Depressing, innit? But think of it this way: there are more of us (proportionally) who would do that for them, in the name of truth, than there are of them who would do the same for us. We are (to that degree) better than they are. “Evolution” museums – real scientific museums – are open to all, and no declaration of faith is required. ---
**Author:** ![pythonzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@pythonzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pythonzzz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/11 "2013-08-15T22:16:42Z")
A response from Mr. Loftus regarding Ham’s accusations: > **[My Response to Ken Ham About My Creation Museum Visit](https://www.debunking-christianity.com/2013/08/my-response-to-ken-ham-about-my.html)** > > Christian Apologetics, Bible, Biblical Christianity, Christian Faith, Agnostic, Evangelical, Atheism, Atheist, Creation, John W. Loftus, David Madison in part: > [@](#): > > Yes it is true, I got into the Creation Museum for free. I didn’t expect it when I told Susan, the head cashier, that I was a skeptic. But she offered and I accepted. My ex-mother-in-law took her daughter and grandson to visit the museum about a year ago and loved it. So when she heard I was speaking at a Freethinkers group in Covington, Kentucky, she suggested I check it out. Since it wasn’t that far out of my way home, I thought I would at least drive past it. That’s all I initially thought I would do. Then I pulled into the parking lot. I meandered inside. I asked Susan how much it costs to get in. She told me $29. > > I said, “Well, I don’t know. I’m a skeptic.” > Susan: “Are you open-minded?” > John: “Yes, sure.” > Susan: “Well then, I’ll give you my pass and a ticket to see the Planetarium presentation.” > John: “Thanks.” > > There is nothing about this conversation that indicated I didn’t have the money if I wanted to purchase a ticket. I don’t have that much money, people here know that. The question on my mind was whether it was worth it to buy a ticket. Perhaps because I was wearing traveling clothes and didn’t expect to be seen by anyone I looked like a pauper, I don’t know. But it was not intentional. And to armedmonkey, be an adult so hands outta your pants. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/12 "2013-08-15T22:28:11Z")
Ken Ham is a sleazebag doing his best to increase the amount of ignorance in the world; but John Loftus is unbearable, self-righteous, and frankly (seriously, I’m not exaggerating to insult the guy) dimwitted. Whoever wins we all lose. > [@pythonzzz](#): > > And to armedmonkey, be an adult so hands outta your pants. Errr what? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/13 "2013-08-15T22:28:58Z")
Weak-ass pitting of a worthy target. OP, you let me down. I have no love for Ken Ham, but this thread really is a piece of shit pitting. Also, the blogger who got into the museum for free is kind of an asshole. I guess what I’m saying here is, in an oblique way, the OP has gotten me to feel a little sorry for Ham and actually agree with his point that this blogger was out of line. Fuck I hate it when this happens! -drewtwo99, avowed homosexual atheist. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/14 "2013-08-15T22:29:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “Evolution” museums – real scientific museums – are open to all, and no declaration of faith is required. But you have to pay. You can’t get in for free by claiming to be an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/15 "2013-08-15T22:35:03Z")
It costs _$29_ to get into that creationist fraud show? By comparison, admission to the Museum of Natural History in New York is $19. That’s a great place with actual scientific and educational value. And you can express skepticism about the exhibits there without guards coming over to shush you. Ken Ham apparently looves it [when nonbelievers visit his “museum”](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/10/the-creation-museum-1/) - he can accuse them of ungodly behavior and play the martyr. Criticism of Ham’s enterprises is valid and relevant, especially when his group obtains [whopping state and local tax incentives](http://www.kentucky.com/2011/05/20/1745988/43-million-tax-break-approved.html) to develop a creationist “theme park”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/16 "2013-08-15T22:38:36Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > He really DID lie, and cheat (assuming the Christian dude’s account is all true) I would not make that assumption. Ken Hamm is a professional liar. He’s repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to deliberately deceive to advance his personal or political agenda. Nothing he says, on any subject, should be taken at face value. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/17 "2013-08-15T22:44:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But fuckin’ **awesome** nonetheless. No, not really. (And what if her boss didn’t think of it as all that “fuckin’ awesome”? He might have gotten an employee in trouble, just to prove some kind of point) I’m not defending Ham, mind you. But the guy was a douchebag for how he went about it. ---
**Author:** ![slm2955](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c6cbf5/32.png) [@slm2955](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slm2955)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/18 "2013-08-15T22:45:04Z")
Disagree ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/19 "2013-08-15T22:48:26Z")
> [@slm2955](#): > > Disagree With what? Mind being a little more specific? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![pythonzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@pythonzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pythonzzz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350/20 "2013-08-15T22:49:02Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Weak-ass pitting of a worthy target. OP, you let me down. I have no love for Ken Ham, but this thread really is a piece of shit pitting. > > Also, the blogger who got into the museum for free is kind of an asshole. > > I guess what I’m saying here is, in an oblique way, the OP has gotten me to feel a little sorry for Ham and actually agree with his point that this blogger was out of line. > > Fuck I hate it when this happens! > > -drewtwo99, avowed homosexual atheist. Ham’s lies, exaggerations, and tantrums are so absurd I figured they pit themselves. His point is to be a Gish-galloping, roo-fucking\*, whiney-assed flock-fleecer who projects his own dishonest tactics onto his critics. - why he left Oz 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/creoturd-ken-ham-whines-again-about-those-awful-atheists/666350.md?page=2)